Political Forums  

Go Back   Defending The Truth Political Forum > Political Issues > Environment

Environment Environmental Politics Forum - Environmental issues, global warming, pollution, and proposals

Thanks Tree29Thanks
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old February 23rd, 2017, 08:43 AM   #51
Senior Member
baloney_detector's Avatar
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 5,043
Originally Posted by excalibur View Post
Yeah, your usual nonsense. Tell us, oh genius, how equipment that is at best able to measure to ±0.5º, and the older thermometers at best ±1.0º, can become a "statistic" of ±0.01º.

Ummm...this is why, in the simplest of explanations.:

As more and more data builds a long-term series, there is less and less influence of single "outliers" on the overall trend, making the long-term trend even more certain than the individual points along it. Put another way, the chance of any single month's value being an "outlier" (outside its range of uncertainty) is about 5%, or one-in-twenty. The chance of two consecutive months' values being outliers is about 0.25%, or one-in-four-hundred. The chance of three consecutive months being outliers is 0.0125%, or one-in-eight-thousand. The chance of a long series of temperatures all occurring near outside the range is incredibily small. Over the long term, these individual "outliers" are few, and balance out because they are evenly distributed (a roughly equal number of points above and below).

baloney_detector is offline  
Old February 23rd, 2017, 09:00 AM   #52
end capitalism now
right to left's Avatar
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Canada
Posts: 2,603
Originally Posted by imaginethat View Post
Climatology is an evolving science. Anyone, on either side, who speaks as if all that needs to be known is known is full of crap.

Like excalibur, who is a paid troll for the fossil fuel industry.
The biggest problem is that there are many other crises also, along with rising GHG levels, that have already started a great extinction cycle, including: ocean acidification, topsoil loss, loss of freshwater resources, shrinking forests and natural habitats, chemical/including plastics contamination, human overpopulation etc., that are driving us towards extinction that will take us out or our children or grandchildren..the blunt, honest scientists and science writers who take an honest look at the future, declare that the die may already be cast-that modern global- industrial capitalist civilization is a system that is too brittle and too resistant to significant change to save the future!

I'd say we have to try anyway, both at a personal level as best we can, and at the public advocacy level, as well as we are able to!
*I was surprised to find this piece in Forbes...but that's the audience who sure as shit needs to read this message:
Unless It Changes, Capitalism Will Starve Humanity By 2050
Forbes Welcome

Capitalism has generated massive wealth for some, but it’s devastated the planet and has failed to improve human well-being at scale.

• Species are going extinct at a rate 1,000 times faster than that of the natural rate over the previous 65 million years (see Center for Health and the Global Environment at Harvard Medical School).

• Since 2000, 6 million hectares of primary forest have been lost each year. That’s 14,826,322 acres, or just less than the entire state of West Virginia (see the 2010 assessment by the Food and Agricultural Organization of the UN).

• Even in the U.S., 15% of the population lives below the poverty line. For children under the age of 18, that number increases to 20% (see U.S. Census).

• The world’s population is expected to reach 10 billion by 2050 (see United Nations' projections).

Capitalism is unsustainable in its current form.

How do we expect to feed that many people while we exhaust the resources that remain?

Human activities are behind the extinction crisis. Commercial agriculture, timber extraction, and infrastructure development are causing habitat loss and our reliance on fossil fuels is a major contributor to climate change.

Public corporations are responding to consumer demand and pressure from Wall Street. Professors Christopher Wright and Daniel Nyberg published Climate Change, Capitalism and Corporations last fall, arguing that businesses are locked in a cycle of exploiting the world's resources in ever more creative ways.

"Our book shows how large corporations are able to continue engaging in increasingly environmentally exploitative behaviour by obscuring the link between endless economic growth and worsening environmental destruction," they wrote.

Yale sociologist Justin Farrell studied 20 years of corporate funding and found that "corporations have used their wealth to amplify contrarian views [of climate change] and create an impression of greater scientific uncertainty than actually exists."

Corporate capitalism is committed to the relentless pursuit of growth, even if it ravages the planet and threatens human health.

We need to build a new system: one that will balance economic growth with sustainability and human flourishing.

A new generation of companies are showing the way forward. They're infusing capitalism with fresh ideas, specifically in regards to employee ownership and agile management........................................ .................
Forbes Welcome

The rest of Drew Hansen's piece talks about cooperative ownership companies or worker co-ops, and how capitalism can 'work with employees to develop new systems of ownership that provide more employee decision-making and profit-sharing in the process'...using the Mondragon Corporations hq'd in Spain as the prime example....and that's sort of where lots of red flags will go up....literally!

From the right, I'm sure a few of the readers notice that even though Hansen doesn't use the term - "worker co-op" directly, that's exactly what he's describing, especially when he cites Mondragon as the example. Anyone who wants further information about worker co-ops and how employees...especially in failing/soon to close enterprises can get together and set it up, should go to a couple of sites linked here at Marxian economist - Richard D Wolff's main site: Professor Richard D. Wolff, where his books and video clips are also located.

Worker co-ops in Spain, America and elsewhere, have to compete with large multinational capitalist enterprises trying to drive them out of business..especially in today's late-stage ruthless capitalism. So, I'm not sure how Drew Hansen connects the dots here, or why he thinks ethical management fixes today's massive environmental calamity coming straight at us....but, I guess it's a start! Whether it's a good enough start, time will tell!
Thanks from imaginethat
right to left is offline  
Old February 23rd, 2017, 09:21 AM   #53
end capitalism now
right to left's Avatar
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Canada
Posts: 2,603
Originally Posted by Twisted Sister View Post
The atmospheric CO2 level is not rising as fast as predicted and the Climatologists are blaming it on the world wide ocean that is absorbing the extra CO2 and that opens up a new ball of wax.
Really! And who predicted it would rise faster than it has so far this year?

Let's look at the numbers coming from Scripp's data analysis from the Mauna Loa Observatory...the longstanding benchmark on this subject: https://scripps.ucsd.edu/programs/keelingcurve/
everyone should have The Keeling Curve site bookmarked for when they read something or want to talk about rising carbon dioxide levels; because the experts say extreme weather events(including volcanic releases) make it necessary to examine a trend over a 10 year period. And by that, the rate of increase has not only increased...but if you look at the historical record, the rate of increase is now three times faster than it was back in the 60's and 70's!

But if we compare this year with last...keeping in mind that we are in an especially hot period: the week ending Feb.22 gives us 407.69 ppm. That's a new record, and if you look at the seasonal averages(Co2 levels peak in late May/early June...minimum being late Sept/early Oct) we're just starting the last week of February, and we got 2.5 to 3.5 months to go before we hit this years peak CO2 level in the atmosphere! At this time last year, we were barely over 404, and now we're way past 407..closing in on 408....I'd say we got a problem, while all the dithering by political and business leaders about carbon taxes and carbon credits goes on endlessly!

Thanks from imaginethat
right to left is offline  
Old February 23rd, 2017, 10:37 AM   #54
Senior Member
RNG's Avatar
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Between everywhere
Posts: 30,293
Originally Posted by Ahgho Boogheroff View Post
More cherry-picking denier cult BS.

2014 was the hottest year on record but it got surpassed by 2015 which in turn was hugely surpassed by 2016. The first seven months of 2016 were the hottest months of that name on record. July and August were tied for the hottest month ever recorded. The rest of the months in 2016 were also in the top few of all the months on record.

The satellite sensors measure the radiance of various levels of the atmosphere at certain frequencies and then the scientists have do complex calculations to infer the temperature at different heights. Groundbased instrumentation that directly measures the temperature is far more accurate.

Denier cult propaganda tries to deceive people by comparing satellite data on temperatures in the upper levels of the atmosphere with the standard ground based temperature measurements.

Both the satellite data and ground level direct measurements show a strong warming trend over the last four decades.

2016 was significantly hotter than 1998, as confirmed by all of the world's major scientific agencies and scientific study organizations.

16 of the 17 hottest years on record have happened since 2001.
You'll notice that ex only quotes the satellite temp data for one stratum of the atmosphere ignoring the fact that all the other strata are increasing in temp.

Further, ex ignores the fact that computer models of greenhouse gas warming is the only thing that successfully predicted that that strata would remain constant or even cool a bit.

Facts are not his friend.
Thanks from imaginethat

Last edited by RNG; February 23rd, 2017 at 10:43 AM.
RNG is offline  

  Defending The Truth Political Forum > Political Issues > Environment

2016, break, climate, continue, nasa, records, trends

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
California Climate Science Truth and Accountability Act of 2016 excalibur Current Events 37 June 6th, 2016 07:26 PM
Here's All The Nonsense 2016 Republicans Have Spouted About Climate Change LongWinded Current Events 10 December 3rd, 2015 01:38 AM
Ted Cruz, Longtime Foe Of NASA And Science, Will Oversee NASA And Science In New Cong LongWinded Current Events 7 January 13th, 2015 11:12 AM
Seriously Deteriorating Unemployment Trends Have Solidified sumara Current Events 1 October 22nd, 2013 08:14 AM

Facebook Twitter RSS Feed

Copyright © 2005-2013 Defending The Truth. All rights reserved.