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Old January 2nd, 2017, 09:39 PM   #51
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I have looked. It is the typical graph that is designed to show a bias. For starters, its not even a graph. It is graffiti. Secondly notice how the solid continues past the current year? That is done to attempt to make it look like a really big astounding curve. Its basically propaganda designed to look like science.
sorry, you might be blind, delusional, intoxicated or whatever it is that makes you this stupid, but the rest of us have eyes and a working brain.

its a dotted line until about 1850.

then its a solid line UNTIL 2016

one that is clearly steeper than any of the previous fluctuations. dramatically steeper.

then it is a DOTTED LINE AGAIN AFTER 2016.

you just told a whopping big lie. you are just making stuff up that anyone can see is garbage if anyone bothers to actually look. but you havent bothered to look. thats the problem with your argument, it relies on you being wrong.
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Old January 2nd, 2017, 09:45 PM   #52
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the fact is this:
in the last century, average temperatures globally have increased significantly, and faster, dramatically faster, an order of magnitude faster, than at any other time in earths history.

the theories are:

this is due to an increased ammount of greenhouse gasses, mainly CO2 and H2O that human activity has added to the atmosphere.

or

this is a natural phenomena.

those with relevant knowledge, education and training in the areas of science relevant to this question, overwhelmingly agree the first theory is the correct one.

those with no knowledge of science, feeble understanding of ecosystems, but with access to the internet, tend to go with the second.
Those with relevant knowledge. Ha Lefties crack me up. This sort of thinking has produced a loss at the polls in the USA for the Democrats. We on the Right have knowledge of all of the fudged numbers and the outright collusion and cheating by many scientists who seem to wish a certain outcome. Its junk science.
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Old January 2nd, 2017, 09:47 PM   #53
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https://globalclimate.ucr.edu/resources.html

See that? No graffiti, no silly little cartoons. Just brass tacks of the last 100 years. Now another thing to keep in mind.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instru...erature_record

So with that in mind, what it comes down to is the Scientific community is basing a hell of a lot of forecasts on assumptions. We really have no idea how vast the temperature swings were on a global scale 700 years ago. The best records we have our old ships manuscripts and descriptions of battles and the such. Even those are not actual recorded temperatures. They are just mentions of it was cold and wet, or sunny and hot or a bad storm. Yes, I am aware that geology and other various earth sciences can look at data and get an idea of the type climate, but to actually start narrowing down the temperature by even a few degrees is crap.
from your links

The industrial activities that our modern civilization depends upon have raised atmospheric concentrations of carbon dioxide and methane to higher levels than at any point during the last 650,000 years. Scientists agree it is very likely that most of the global average warming since the mid-20th century is due to the human-induced increases in greenhouse gases, rather than to natural causes. While natural variations have altered the climate significantly in the past, it is very unlikely that the changes in climate observed since the mid-20th century can be explained by natural processes alone.

Human activity has been increasing the concentration of greenhouse gases in the atmosphere (mostly carbon dioxide from combustion of coal, oil, and gas; plus a few other trace gases). There is no scientific debate on this point.

but the fundamental elements of climate change are not indispute.

There is a scientific consensus that climate is changing and that greenhouse gases emitted by human activities are the primary driver.

thank you. i agree with the sources you posted that make the claim for human caused global warming.
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Old January 2nd, 2017, 09:52 PM   #54
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Those with relevant knowledge. Ha Lefties crack me up. This sort of thinking has produced a loss at the polls in the USA for the Democrats. We on the Right have knowledge of all of the fudged numbers and the outright collusion and cheating by scientists who seem to wish a certain outcome. Its junk science.

i hope you realise that a conspiracy of this size would be completely impossible. because thats what your argument is - conspiracy theory. if you believe this, you might as well believe the moon landings were fake and elvis is out there somewhere, because they are just as reasonable as your position on climate change.
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Old January 2nd, 2017, 10:04 PM   #55
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When a scientists publish results they are supposed to release all of the associated data and such so that the results can be retested and verified. NOAA is not doing that.

US science agency refuses request for climate records : Nature News & Comment
28 October 2015

try to keep up.

Scientists are Saving Climate Data; This Is Why it Matters | Climate Central

nothing here about NOAA hiding anything, and plenty about how its freely available and used by countless agencies all the time.

of course, this must be part of the massive global conspiracy, that nearly every scientist, physicist, biologist, nearly every university, nearly every academic, nearly every climate - related organisation, is part of. a massive global conspiracy to defraud taxpayers and business, because....

..

actually, why are they doing this? how does a massive, what would be enormously expensive and impossibly complicated conspiracy network, how do they benefit from this con?
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Old January 2nd, 2017, 10:14 PM   #56
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Those with relevant knowledge. Ha Lefties crack me up. This sort of thinking has produced a loss at the polls in the USA for the Democrats. We on the Right have knowledge of all of the fudged numbers and the outright collusion and cheating by scientists who seem to wish a certain outcome. Its junk science.
Holy crap!

Now that you have been thoroughly trashed on the science aspect of this you're going to appeal to public opinion?

The reason "this sort of thinking has produced a loss at the polls for Democrats" is because of the willful ignorance and anti science position of the Republicans.

Far Republicans deny evolution, climate change, psychology of homosexuality and a variety of other, well established scientific principles because they don't fit in with their far right ideology. They turn to people like Limbaugh and Hannity, who have no scientific training whatsoever to inform them on complex scientific issues.

It's bad enough that these idiots refuse to educate themselves on the most basic of scientific principles but they insist on doing it the classroom as well to our children. It's no surprise that surveys show our school age children lagging behind in science education.

Student Test Scores Show U.S. Science-Education Deficiency - WSJ

U.S. students improving in math and science, but still lag internationally | Pew Research Center

These results are no doubt a reflection of the rabid anti science stance of conservatives/Republicans.
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Old January 2nd, 2017, 10:23 PM   #57
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i hope you realise that a conspiracy of this size would be completely impossible. because thats what your argument is - conspiracy theory. if you believe this, you might as well believe the moon landings were fake and elvis is out there somewhere, because they are just as reasonable as your position on climate change.
The moon landings were faked.


I have no idea if global warming (or whatever it is called this week) is real and/or is being caused by people. I do feel that sucking out a liquid out of the earth and lighting it on fire probably will have some negative consequences. IMO it is completely logical to error on the side of caution.

That being said I do also believe that the socialists and the globalists are taking advantage of the situation.

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Old January 3rd, 2017, 12:16 AM   #58
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Yes and the steep angle of the forecast is based on the current "fudged" number.


The bottom line is that this should be called a theory not a fact. The theory is that man can affect some change in the climate. Frankly it is a ridiculous theory. All this so some socialists can control, though taxation, people. Liberals are fixated on cow farts, while terrorists are picking away at the foundations of western society.
And, you just discovered why the oil and coal industries started a well-funded disinformation program 30 years ago on global warming! All of the business interests who feared that dealing with climate change would require shifting energy sources, global regulations and raising taxes on carbon, went on the warpath to save their profit margins...and to hell with the future!

I would agree that liberals are a problem on this issue...but it's not how you see it! The problem is they support the present status quo..while just wanting to tweak the dials a bit on a global economic system that requires constant, exponential growth will bust through whatever liberals propose to control the excesses of capitalism.

And global warming isn't our only ecological problem. It's the hot topic of the moment, but growth-based economics and population increases are giving us an estimated 60 years left of topsoil in the world's major food-growing regions; and we're losing available freshwater in most of the world, the oceans are dying, then there's the great unknowns that will be with us for centuries: plastics and chemical residues. Between four and six of the planetary systems boundaries have been crossed Have We Crossed the 9 Planetary Boundaries? How many do we get to disrupt before an already started extinction cycle takes us out? Who knows, but what's more important: continuing economic growth, or preserving our home for the next generations?
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Old January 3rd, 2017, 06:20 AM   #59
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The moon landings were faked.


I have no idea if global warming (or whatever it is called this week) is real and/or is being caused by people. I do feel that sucking out a liquid out of the earth and lighting it on fire probably will have some negative consequences. IMO it is completely logical to error on the side of caution.

That being said I do also believe that the socialists and the globalists are taking advantage of the situation.

I'm like you. I take a Pascals wager approach to global warming. I'm not convinced its all because of human activity. But burning hundreds of billions of gallons of fuels, hundreds of billions of cubic feet of natural gases, along with billions of tons of coal has to be having an effect. There are parts of China so polluted that nothing lives there. Not a bird, not a bug, not a blade of grass. The deserts are getting larger. We are losing coast line in some areas. We have 7 billion people on a planet with finite resources. We've gone from 3 billion to 7 billion just in my life time. We'll hit 9 billion in just a few more years. This is the number some scientist say is the max sustainable population. More than that and we simply can't feed everyone.

One of the most profound statements I ever heard came from the Matrix movies. In it they said "a virus is a disease that kills it's host. On planet earth HUMANS are the virus".

So our choice are.

Man made global warming is real or it's not.

If it's real and we do nothing, it gets worse and we leave the world a worse place for our descendants.

If it's not real and we do nothing, then nothing changes.

If it's not real and we act like it is real, then we leave the world a cleaner place.

If it's real and we do something, then maybe we can undo or at least mitigate some of the damage.

I choose to act like it's real. The worst that will happen is we leave the planet a little cleaner than we found it. I do what I can to reduce my foot print. I think we need to be investing heavily in renewable energies. And I think we need to be protecting the environment in general.

There is also more than a little irony here too. Many of the most ardent deniers, are also the most religious. They will look at the beauty of this planet and insist there is a God, because only God could have created something so beautiful. Then they'll cut every tree, dam up every river, blow up the mountains to get at the coal, drill oil wells, and build housing complexes totally destroying God creation. Then insist that none of this is having an effect on our environment.

Last edited by BubbaJones; January 3rd, 2017 at 06:23 AM.
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Old January 3rd, 2017, 06:31 AM   #60
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from your links

The industrial activities that our modern civilization depends upon have raised atmospheric concentrations of carbon dioxide and methane to higher levels than at any point during the last 650,000 years. Scientists agree it is very likely that most of the global average warming since the mid-20th century is due to the human-induced increases in greenhouse gases, rather than to natural causes. While natural variations have altered the climate significantly in the past, it is very unlikely that the changes in climate observed since the mid-20th century can be explained by natural processes alone.

Human activity has been increasing the concentration of greenhouse gases in the atmosphere (mostly carbon dioxide from combustion of coal, oil, and gas; plus a few other trace gases). There is no scientific debate on this point.

but the fundamental elements of climate change are not indispute.

There is a scientific consensus that climate is changing and that greenhouse gases emitted by human activities are the primary driver.

thank you. i agree with the sources you posted that make the claim for human caused global warming.
Your welcome. The sources contained actual data and numbers minus propaganda graffiti.
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