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Old June 8th, 2017, 01:11 PM   #21
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And a greater chance of skin cancer!
True. You urban dwellers, do not, repeat do not move to rural areas especially high altitude areas. It's horrible here. You wouldn't believe how many people have skin cancer.
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Old June 8th, 2017, 01:17 PM   #22
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80% of the electricity used to propel an EV is generated by burning fossil fuel.
Duh.
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Old June 8th, 2017, 01:36 PM   #23
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The motors in electric-powered vehicles are sealed. They are air and water tight.

The majority of ground level ozone is produced when nitrogen oxides - emitted by internal combustion engines - reacts with volatile organic compounds - think, gasoline vapors.

On balance, electric vehicles are cleaner then vehicles powered by engines, but where it counts, in high traffic areas plagued by gridlock, electric vehicles will make a dramatic difference in air quality.
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Old June 8th, 2017, 01:52 PM   #24
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I have a follow up question, there is less ozone because of modern contact technology reduces arching by use zero crossover technologies etc, or some other reason?

Climate change models would need the utility ozone model but it would also need to include simulation for water vapor, NOx, SOx, and the transformation of ozone into smog in varying conditions around the globe along with all the other tens of thousands of variables required.
Ozone isn't a greenhouse gas. Neither are the nitrogen or sulfur containing molecules now that sulfur is low enough that it isn't an aerosol any more. And even then it wasn't a greenhouse gas, it was an aerosol that blocked the sun and caused cooling.

And water vapor is included in the models.

Much of the drop in ozone emissions from motors is due to brushless technology for DC motors, which I believe all EVs are.

There are brushless alternators but I don't know if there are brushless generators.

But always keep in mind that one issue with CO and NOX is that they are ozone precursors. Emissions of those in a gas vehicle adds more ozone than an EV. My guess is that your neighborhood power plant is less of an emitter than your neighborhood refinery too which is what your Science 2.0 paper was saying.
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Old June 9th, 2017, 10:10 AM   #25
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The motors in electric-powered vehicles are sealed. They are air and water tight.

The majority of ground level ozone is produced when nitrogen oxides - emitted by internal combustion engines - reacts with volatile organic compounds - think, gasoline vapors.

On balance, electric vehicles are cleaner then vehicles powered by engines, but where it counts, in high traffic areas plagued by gridlock, electric vehicles will make a dramatic difference in air quality.
I didn't dispute your claim.

I don't own an electric car, so I didn't know.
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Old June 9th, 2017, 10:15 AM   #26
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Ozone isn't a greenhouse gas. Neither are the nitrogen or sulfur containing molecules now that sulfur is low enough that it isn't an aerosol any more. And even then it wasn't a greenhouse gas, it was an aerosol that blocked the sun and caused cooling.

And water vapor is included in the models.

Much of the drop in ozone emissions from motors is due to brushless technology for DC motors, which I believe all EVs are.

There are brushless alternators but I don't know if there are brushless generators.

But always keep in mind that one issue with CO and NOX is that they are ozone precursors. Emissions of those in a gas vehicle adds more ozone than an EV. My guess is that your neighborhood power plant is less of an emitter than your neighborhood refinery too which is what your Science 2.0 paper was saying.
Ozone isn't a greenhouse gas it is real pollution.

I don't dispute that electric cars are cleaner. I was wondering is generating the additional electricity to power 100 million electric cars would produce a significant amount of ozone.
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Old June 9th, 2017, 10:58 AM   #27
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Ozone isn't a greenhouse gas it is real pollution.

I don't dispute that electric cars are cleaner. I was wondering is generating the additional electricity to power 100 million electric cars would produce a significant amount of ozone.
The model is saying less than is caused by IC engines.
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Old June 9th, 2017, 12:59 PM   #28
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The model is saying less than is caused by IC engines.
There doesn't appear to be a big drop in ozone, it looks about the same, but if it can be shifted to the middle of the night it is less harmful since fewer people are out and about. Am I reading it incorrectly? How much is ozone reduced?

Texas has a favorable mix of generation sources:

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The distribution of electricity generation capacity (MW) in this grid, by type of fuel, is 20% coal, 71% natural gas, 5% nuclear and 4% wind (EIA 2010a), while in 2009 the shares of actual electricity generation in ERCOT were 46% natural gas, 35% coal, 13% nuclear, and 4.5% wind (EIA 2010b).
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Old June 9th, 2017, 01:22 PM   #29
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There doesn't appear to be a big drop in ozone, it looks about the same, but if it can be shifted to the middle of the night it is less harmful since fewer people are out and about. Am I reading it incorrectly? How much is ozone reduced?

Texas has a favorable mix of generation sources:
The article didn't give quantitative data. Like so many other things, it isn't that bad to humans at concentrations normally seen. But it can have a long term negative effect on many substances. Natural rubber is particularly susceptible to ozone oxidation as are some plastics. It will accelerate the rusting of iron and steel. The good news is that it is relatively reactive so is consumed, but the bad news is that the consumption is usually doing something bad to some material.
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Old June 9th, 2017, 02:37 PM   #30
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I didn't dispute your claim.

I don't own an electric car, so I didn't know.
I don't own one. The data easily is accessed.
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