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Old June 2nd, 2017, 12:46 PM   #41
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Source?
Actually I said that all wrong and didn't realize it until now. US power generation from coal is at 34% and dropping. German power generation was at 45% which now turns out to be 46%.

Over the past ten years, while we have been decommissioning coal plants, Germany was putting new ones on line to replace nuclear.

While Germany is making efforts for alternative energy, it seems hypocrisy to me that everyone is looking at the US as the evil coal nation, while many are consuming coal at a greater rate than we are.

And let us not forget the "developing nations". Who is China to lecture the US when she is mostly coal? I recall reading a few years ago that she was putting coal plants on line at the rate of 2 each week. You ever see the people in China wearing masks?

Google: new coal power plants in germany and see for yourself.
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Old June 2nd, 2017, 12:50 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by Salinator1 View Post
Actually I said that all wrong and didn't realize it until now. US power generation from coal is at 34% and dropping. German power generation was at 45% which now turns out to be 46%.

Over the past ten years, while we have been decommissioning coal plants, Germany was putting new ones on line to replace nuclear.

While Germany is making efforts for alternative energy, it seems hypocrisy to me that everyone is looking at the US as the evil coal nation, while many are consuming coal at a greater rate than we are.

And let us not forget the "developing nations". Who is China to lecture the US when she is mostly coal? I recall reading a few years ago that she was putting coal plants on line at the rate of 2 each week. You ever see the people in China wearing masks?

Google: new coal power plants in germany and see for yourself.
Now why don't you Google total CO2 emissions for the US vs Germany?

And trends in CO2 emissions for those two countries.

And you still haven't given a source.
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Old June 2nd, 2017, 12:57 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by Salinator1 View Post
Actually I said that all wrong and didn't realize it until now. US power generation from coal is at 34% and dropping. German power generation was at 45% which now turns out to be 46%.

Over the past ten years, while we have been decommissioning coal plants, Germany was putting new ones on line to replace nuclear.

While Germany is making efforts for alternative energy, it seems hypocrisy to me that everyone is looking at the US as the evil coal nation, while many are consuming coal at a greater rate than we are.

And let us not forget the "developing nations". Who is China to lecture the US when she is mostly coal? I recall reading a few years ago that she was putting coal plants on line at the rate of 2 each week. You ever see the people in China wearing masks?

Google: new coal power plants in germany and see for yourself.
Nothing more or less than pure and unadulterated hypocrisy.
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Old June 2nd, 2017, 09:01 PM   #44
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Yet, the clever and world-loving Germans burn 45% more coal than the US, and are still building coal plants right now. Paris Accords my ass.
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...

Cumulative Emissions

Cumulative emissions describe a country’s total historic emissions. They are a commonly used concept for understanding responsibility for climate change, since they are a proxy for the amount of current warming caused by specific countries. This measurement can vary significantly depending on the chosen start date and the inclusion of gases and sectors.

The graph below shows cumulative emissions including Land-Use Change and Forestry (LUCF) for the top 10 emitters during the period 1990 to 2011, when complete data are available. Almost half of emissions come from just four countries: the United States, China, European Union and Russian Federation.



The graph below expands the time period from 1850 to 2011, during which data only on CO2 emissions are continuously available. In this case, the five major emitters—the United States, European Union, China, Russian Federation, and Japan— together contributed two-thirds of the world’s historic CO2 emissions - using up around 37 percent of our global carbon budget.




http://www.wri.org/blog/2014/11/6-gr...op-10-emitters
And it is far more important to look at cumulative greenhouse emissions, particularly regarding CO2, since greenhouse gases tend to linger in Earth's atmosphere for decades to centuries.
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Old June 2nd, 2017, 09:18 PM   #45
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EPA head calls Trump's climate deal withdrawal 'courageous,' 'thoughtful'

The head of the Environmental Protection Agency on Friday launched a vigorous defence of Donald Trump's decision to pull the U.S. out of the Paris climate-change agreement, but refused to say whether the president believes climate change is a hoax.

Scott Pruitt, speaking to reporters at the White House press briefing, called Trump's decision to exit the Paris deal on Thursday as "courageous" and "thoughtful" and that it does not mean disengagement from the issue of climate change.
We're screwed.

EPA head calls Trump's climate deal withdrawal 'courageous,' 'thoughtful' - World - CBC News
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Old June 2nd, 2017, 09:22 PM   #46
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OK, instead of whining LW nutters, we need to negotiate a deal that is fair to the US and actually accomplishes something instead of giving free passes and billions of US dollars to the largest polluters China and India.

Who in their right mind thinks it was a great idea for America to send billions of taxpayer dollars for this malarky, whilst the real polluters are allowed to increase their pollution and pay little to nothing. This was another huge pile of dog vomit from Obama just like all the other piles he left laying around. History will not be kind to the Obama administration as the light shines brighter onto the corrupt Obama years.

Read the 'accord' for yourself. America has to give up many things, like coal production mentioned here so that other countries can increase their coal production which eradicate American jobs plus America has to pour billions upon billions of dollars into a fund that countries like India, Iran, China or some little pissant South Pacific island gets to suckle from. If you support the Paris Treaty you are anti-American.

Thank you President Trump. The Paris Accord was a terrible deal for the USA. Keep up the good work. Trump 2020!
So I guess to you that being "pro-American" means that it is quite alright for America to, in effect, dump America's trash on the undeveloped world for over a century and a half while the US develops....and then tell the currently developing world that they, today, have to pay to clean up that mess?
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Old June 2nd, 2017, 10:10 PM   #47
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Tobacco To Fossil Fuels: Tracing the Roots of Trump's Claims on Paris Climate Deal

By Graham Readfearn • Thursday, June 1, 2017 - 23:14


To understand why President Donald Trump pulled the United States out of the global Paris climate agreement, we might start by looking at the sources he relied on to justify his decision.

But we’re not going to start there, but we will end there.

Instead, let’s go back to the early 1990s. The tobacco industry was facing multiple bans on advertising its products in countries around the world.

So the tobacco industry took ownership of a study that reviewed a bunch of other studies about the claimed impacts of tobacco advertising on actual tobacco consumption.

In short, the study, handed to Phillip Morris International, concluded there was no real link between tobacco advertising and smoking levels. Studies that had found a link were probably flawed, the report claimed.

The reports, the letters, and the memos back and forth, are all buried away in the Tobacco Industry Documents Archive at the University of California – San Francisco.

Clearly, the report would help the tobacco industry to argue there was no need to regulate the advertising of its products, because that advertising didn’t make a difference to smoking levels one way or the other.

National Economic Research Associates

The company that carried out that tobacco study was National Economic Research Associates.

Why is this relevant to Donald Trump and his decision to pull out of the Paris climate agreement?

When Trump spoke of the “onerous energy restrictions” he claimed the Paris deal placed on the United States, he cited figures from a report by the very same National Economic Research Associates (NERA).

According to the NERA study, the Paris agreement would cut coal and gas production, and “cost” America 2.7 million jobs.

Fossil Fuel Interests

Two groups, namely the American Council for Capital Formation (ACCF) and the U.S Chamber of Commerce, sponsored the NERA report (incidentally, a New York Times investigation described the chamber as Big Tobacco’s Staunch Friend in Washington, due to its advocacy for the industry).

NERA has also produced reports supporting the LNG industry and the coal industry.

The ACCF has, over the years, accepted funds from a string of major corporations and industry groups, including ExxonMobil, the American Petroleum Institute and foundations linked to the billionaire petrochemical brothers Charles and David Koch.

As a fact check by the Associated Press on the part of Trump’s speech citing the NERA study published points out:

“The study makes worst-case assumptions that may inflate the cost of meeting U.S. targets under the Paris accord while largely ignoring the economic benefits to U.S. businesses from building and operating renewable energy projects.

Academic studies have found that increased environmental regulation doesn’t actually have much impact on employment. Jobs lost at polluting companies tend to be offset by new jobs in green technology.”

A separate team of economists and scientists has also checked the claims made in the NERA report, which has previously been cited by failed Republican Presidential candidate (and climate science denier) Ted Cruz. They come to similarly unflattering conclusions to the AP fact check.

So in the end, we have President Trump relying on a questionable report paid for by groups with a clear vested interest in undermining the Paris agreement.

Cigarette, Anyone?

When reporters were being briefed in the hours before Trump walked out to the White House Rose Garden, it was Trump’s energy aide Mike Catanzaro making the calls.

As DeSmog’s Steve Horn has pointed out, Catanzaro is a former fossil fuel and energy lobbyist with a history of attacking climate science.

He also spent time working with Senator James Inhofe – the Republican who claims global warming is the greatest hoax ever. Catanzaro is just one of a parade of former industry lobbyists now in top positions in the Trump administration.

The Paris climate deal, struck in late 2015, was rightly declared a historic moment.

No doubt too, Trump’s declaration that he will join Nicaragua and Syria outside the deal will also be seen as historic.

It was a decision to delay action to regulate an industry, based on tired old propaganda techniques and the self-serving analysis of a polluting industry under attack.

Cigarette, anyone?


https://www.desmogblog.com/2017/06/0...s-climate-deal
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Old June 2nd, 2017, 10:29 PM   #48
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And it is far more important to look at cumulative greenhouse emissions, particularly regarding CO2, since greenhouse gases tend to linger in Earth's atmosphere for decades to centuries.
Not that it matters much, but since England started the trend to carbonizing the atmosphere when they started replacing water-powered mills in the 1830's with coal-fired steam engines, I'll bet the bulk of Europe's legacy emissions are a legacy of the British Empire.
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Old June 3rd, 2017, 03:25 AM   #49
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Why yes! Isn't that how most people describe Trump? Courageous? AND THOUGHTFUL?

Someone needs to buy Pruitt a dictionary.
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Old June 3rd, 2017, 09:23 AM   #50
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Why yes! Isn't that how most people describe Trump? Courageous? AND THOUGHTFUL?

Someone needs to buy Pruitt a dictionary.
It's how things look over there in Upside Down World!
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