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Old July 14th, 2017, 10:08 AM   #61
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Originally Posted by baloney_detector View Post
Actually, the links you provided cannot be used by themselves to determine that "Billions so far not trillions" of "government money (is) being pissed away."

Indeed, the DOE loan program-related $2.2 billion figure is just an estimate, of which is likely to change-and does change quite regularly-because it is partially based upon variable costs (such administration fees) that occur during the lifetime of said program. Granted, at the end of the loan program that figure could be even higher. However, that cited estimated "tab" from a few years ago, as well as today, is actually significantly lower than the amount that it was expected to be by the people who developed that loan program...which means that program is actually performing better financially than anticipate at the start of said loan program.

(It should also be noted that $2.2 billion figure doesn't include any savings that the American public sees from the reduction of external costs that result from the reduction in the use of fossil fuels.)

Additionally, the dollar figures in the other cited article reflect monies that were only approved of for those cited companies, and not actually monies that were dispersed to said companies. And while some of those companies had received said monies prior to filling bankruptcy, other companies in that listing had not received any of that money they had been approved for prior to filling bankruptcy. Also, some of those companies had reached bankruptcy settlements in which they were required to pay back at least a portion of the loan monies that had been dispersed to them.

So, not only did you evidently exaggerate with your "trillions" claim, you also appear to not have a clue what that actual figure happens to be.

Lastly, the US government always spends someone else's money, so to speak. And the only true difference between yourself and I is in how we want our tax dollars spent by said government.

You never provided a single source to refute anything. You just sounded off in a manner that was to be dismissive and considered correct. Then you went off on a tangent about how the numbers was not right because of unknown variables that you never bothered to demonstrate or source in any manner. Do you have any facts to support anything you said?
Probably not.


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Old July 14th, 2017, 10:13 AM   #62
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Diesel fuel is killing millions world wide every year. The UK has recently banned diesel cars from operating in the city of London. Only lorries( semi trailers are allowed. ) The particulate matter spewed from diesel engines, has been proven to be carcinogenic. Its been proven to kill. So why is diesel still allowed to be produced in passenger cars.
Because idiot environmentalists decided that diesel would be better than lighter fuel gasoline. The real reason is to hamper capitalism by extinguishing vehicle sales. By shoving diesel engines out as environmentally more friendly than gasoline they was able to raise the price point of vehicles that forced many people to no longer own their own vehicle. Therefore it was nothing but a canard in regards to the environment and just an attack on capitalism in general in my opinion. Marxism loves environmentalists. Any mechanic could tell you that diesel is a hell of a lot nastier than gasoline. Its more bang for the buck in some regards, but its dirty as hell

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Old July 14th, 2017, 10:14 AM   #63
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Here's the Oak Ridge publication on it with a bit more detail. Not a full scale paper though. https://www.ornl.gov/news/nano-spike...rectly-ethanol

Now that some seriously fucking cool shit !!!
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Old July 14th, 2017, 10:21 AM   #64
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Because idiot environmentalists decided that diesel would be better than lighter fuel gasoline. The real reason is to hamper capitalism by extinguishing vehicle sales. By shoving diesel engines out as environmentally more friendly than gasoline they was able to raise the price point of vehicles that forced many people to no longer own their own vehicle. Therefore it was nothing but a canard in regards to the environment and just an attack on capitalism in general in my opinion. Marxism loves environmentalists. Any mechanic could tell you that diesel is a hell of a lot nastier than gasoline. Its more bang for the buck in some regards, but its dirty as hell

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Actually it's just simple math. The current price for gas and diesel in Europe is $5.50 a gallon. It was $8.80 when I was there a few years ago. A gas car will get 30 mpg while the same sized car with a diesel will get 50. At 5 or 6 bucks a gallon that 20 mpg difference adds up to huge dollars.
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Old July 14th, 2017, 10:25 AM   #65
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Actually it's just simple math. The current price for gas and diesel in Europe is $5.50 a gallon. It was $8.80 when I was there a few years ago. A gas car will get 30 mpg while the same sized car with a diesel will get 50. At 5 or 6 bucks a gallon that 20 mpg difference adds up to huge dollars.
Factor in the price point of the vehicle. Factor in the maintenance costs. Then add in the environmental factors.
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Old July 14th, 2017, 10:45 AM   #66
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Factor in the price point of the vehicle. Factor in the maintenance costs. Then add in the environmental factors.
On the first two, diesels are still cheaper when fuel is 5 plus dollars a gallon. Here with gas in the $2 a gallon range, yeah it would take 10 years to recover the cost of the diesel. In Europe, about 2 to 3 years at current prices. When I was there 4 years ago, you'd recover the additional cost in a little over a year.

As for the third, since the early 2000s in Europe, later 2000's here, cars have diesel particulate filters that all but eliminates the soot coming out the tail pipe. More recently they've started using an ammonia injection system that eliminates the NOx. The new diesels are pretty damned clean, and still get vastly superior mileage.

Except here in the south where the good ole boys strip all that stuff out of their jacked up 4 wheel drive bubba wagons and reprogram the engine controllers to spew as much black smoke as they possibly can. Rolling coal they call it. Personally I think they should have to capture every ounce of the shit they spew into the air and store it IN THEIR OWN HOMES. They and their families can breath all that shit they want, but you DO NOT get to spew that crap into the air I BREATH !!!
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Old July 14th, 2017, 11:16 AM   #67
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Originally Posted by BubbaJones View Post
Actually it's just simple math. The current price for gas and diesel in Europe is $5.50 a gallon. It was $8.80 when I was there a few years ago. A gas car will get 30 mpg while the same sized car with a diesel will get 50. At 5 or 6 bucks a gallon that 20 mpg difference adds up to huge dollars.
In part that was because of the false diesel ratings Volkswagen and others put out. But now more and more they started seeing the health risks from diesel exhaust being underreported. So diesel cars are being threatened with being banned from a number of European cities including London.
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Old July 14th, 2017, 12:05 PM   #68
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Dude, it does not need to replace ALL oil usage.
How much has green produced, 1 or 2%? I would love to see viable alternatives to oil but, we're nowhere near that.
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Old July 14th, 2017, 06:20 PM   #69
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On the first two, diesels are still cheaper when fuel is 5 plus dollars a gallon. Here with gas in the $2 a gallon range, yeah it would take 10 years to recover the cost of the diesel. In Europe, about 2 to 3 years at current prices. When I was there 4 years ago, you'd recover the additional cost in a little over a year.

As for the third, since the early 2000s in Europe, later 2000's here, cars have diesel particulate filters that all but eliminates the soot coming out the tail pipe. More recently they've started using an ammonia injection system that eliminates the NOx. The new diesels are pretty damned clean, and still get vastly superior mileage.

Except here in the south where the good ole boys strip all that stuff out of their jacked up 4 wheel drive bubba wagons and reprogram the engine controllers to spew as much black smoke as they possibly can. Rolling coal they call it. Personally I think they should have to capture every ounce of the shit they spew into the air and store it IN THEIR OWN HOMES. They and their families can breath all that shit they want, but you DO NOT get to spew that crap into the air I BREATH !!!
There is a breaking point with diesel engines and gasoline. Today's gasoline engines get almost as good of mileage in a comparative pickup truck as their diesel counterparts do. No diesel is very clean. Black/wet stacking is just starving your engine for air and letting diesel flash off in the stack. Or dumping excess fuel into the cylinder and getting the same result. Unless you need the torque for towing in my opinion by the time you began to reap in your cost savings your vehicle will be well over 100k miles. I see no reason at all to own a 3/4 ton diesel pickup truck unless you are towing a considerable payload.
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Old July 14th, 2017, 07:31 PM   #70
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Because idiot environmentalists decided that diesel would be better than lighter fuel gasoline. The real reason is to hamper capitalism by extinguishing vehicle sales. By shoving diesel engines out as environmentally more friendly than gasoline they was able to raise the price point of vehicles that forced many people to no longer own their own vehicle. Therefore it was nothing but a canard in regards to the environment and just an attack on capitalism in general in my opinion. Marxism loves environmentalists. Any mechanic could tell you that diesel is a hell of a lot nastier than gasoline. Its more bang for the buck in some regards, but its dirty as hell

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When did environmentalists decide that diesel engines would be better and more friendly than gasoline engines?
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