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Old April 12th, 2018, 09:10 AM   #1
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Birds in trouble in Europe

"Birds in farming regions of France are in trouble, and that may indicate problems in similar areas across Europe.

"Scientists involved in long-running regional and national bird-counting surveys in France have reported precipitous declines in agricultural regions, even among common birds well adapted to human activity — the generalists, like blackbirds, that seem to do well in most circumstances.

"This finding follows news of a devastating loss of insects in Germany, a decline of nearly 80 percent over the last 40 years. The drop is thought to be occurring throughout Europe."

(My emphasis - more @ https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/11/s...s-decline.html)

Troubling because we in the US tend to think of Europe as taking a more benign approach to agriculture - fertilizers, pesticides, insecticides, weed killers. If their crops & insects & birds are in trouble, then US equivalents are likely in worse shape.
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Old April 12th, 2018, 09:42 AM   #2
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Can't we go back to talking about how great America is going to be again once the GDP starts growing 3+ percent/yr?

That's a lot more interesting than talking about some birds dying or whatever.....

**comeysucks**

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Old April 12th, 2018, 09:48 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by imaginethat View Post
Can't we go back to talking about how great America is going to be again once the GDP starts growing 3+ percent/yr?

That's a lot more interesting than talking about some birds dying or whatever.....

**comeysucks**

**rachelcarsonsuckstoo**
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Old April 12th, 2018, 11:22 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by hoosier88 View Post
"Birds in farming regions of France are in trouble, and that may indicate problems in similar areas across Europe.

"Scientists involved in long-running regional and national bird-counting surveys in France have reported precipitous declines in agricultural regions, even among common birds well adapted to human activity — the generalists, like blackbirds, that seem to do well in most circumstances.

"This finding follows news of a devastating loss of insects in Germany, a decline of nearly 80 percent over the last 40 years. The drop is thought to be occurring throughout Europe."

(My emphasis - more @ https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/11/s...s-decline.html)

Troubling because we in the US tend to think of Europe as taking a more benign approach to agriculture - fertilizers, pesticides, insecticides, weed killers. If their crops & insects & birds are in trouble, then US equivalents are likely in worse shape.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/rrapier.../#2b29fb9c115b

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Jerry Jung's passion for reforming the nation's ethanol laws started when he noticed that the monarch butterflies had vanished from his hobby farm north of Clare, Michigan. After doing a bit of research, he learned that the monarch population had plummeted in recent years.

Most of the corn planted today is genetically engineered with a bacterial toxin that is harmful to the butterflies. It is also engineered to be herbicide tolerant. Herbicides are used to kill weeds that compete with corn, but that includes food sources for the monarchs like milkweed.

Has the Ethanol Mandate Led to Eradication of Monarch Butterflies? - EclectEcon

December 22, 2013
Has the Ethanol Mandate Led to Eradication of Monarch Butterflies?

Maybe not eradication, but quite likely the strong incentives/requirements for ethanol use (and the ensuing clearing of land to raise more corn and soybeans) have seriously reduced the population of monarchs.
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Old April 12th, 2018, 03:01 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by Libertine View Post
https://www.forbes.com/sites/rrapier.../#2b29fb9c115b




Has the Ethanol Mandate Led to Eradication of Monarch Butterflies? - EclectEcon

December 22, 2013
Has the Ethanol Mandate Led to Eradication of Monarch Butterflies?

Maybe not eradication, but quite likely the strong incentives/requirements for ethanol use (and the ensuing clearing of land to raise more corn and soybeans) have seriously reduced the population of monarchs.
The populations of a lot a species are down. Huge numbers of red-winged blackbirds were a common sight here in the spring and fall. No more. Hardly any to be seen.

Thank goodness the wild honeybee is doing well here. I see fewer and fewer domestic bees. Fewer hummingbirds. But that's just what we can see, with a lot of unseen stuff going on.

And for what? Corn-based ethanol. Dumb.

Oh, and we human test subjects get to eat the same Bt Corn that's killing the Monarchs, but no worries. It's safe....
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Old April 12th, 2018, 03:16 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by imaginethat View Post
The populations of a lot a species are down. Huge numbers of red-winged blackbirds were a common sight here in the spring and fall. No more. Hardly any to be seen.

Thank goodness the wild honeybee is doing well here. I see fewer and fewer domestic bees. Fewer hummingbirds. But that's just what we can see, with a lot of unseen stuff going on.

And for what? Corn-based ethanol. Dumb.

Oh, and we human test subjects get to eat the same Bt Corn that's killing the Monarchs, but no worries. It's safe....
Yah. That's what's disappointing about the apparent problems with birds/insects in Europe. I had understood that Europe was holding the line on GMOs, & requiring much more stringent testing to tighter specs than in the US - whether that was an economic ploy or concern about the health/environmental issues involved, I couldn't tell. From the POV of protecting human & other populations, the reasons for the decisions didn't matter that much to me. Surely Monsanto & ADM & etc. can manage without picking up every single dime they can find loose in the street?

Or are things in the corporate seed/biochem industry that much tougher than I thought?
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Old April 12th, 2018, 03:17 PM   #7
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It has been more decades than I can count to hear the mournful song of the Whip-o-Will.
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Old April 12th, 2018, 03:30 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by imaginethat View Post
The populations of a lot a species are down. Huge numbers of red-winged blackbirds were a common sight here in the spring and fall. No more. Hardly any to be seen.

Thank goodness the wild honeybee is doing well here. I see fewer and fewer domestic bees. Fewer hummingbirds. But that's just what we can see, with a lot of unseen stuff going on.

And for what? Corn-based ethanol. Dumb.

Oh, and we human test subjects get to eat the same Bt Corn that's killing the Monarchs, but no worries. It's safe....


That is kinda the chicken and the egg is it not?

Does it still require more calories to produce ethanol than the ethanol itself produces?

If so why the ethanol rage? To appease the clean energy gods? To feed the subsidized corn farmers who in turn push the corn lobby?

I do know that e85 is basically race fuel so that is cool but at what cost?

Everyone is so worried about "climate change" and trump tweets but we are putting corn in goddamn near everything and it is basically poison. Our corn syrup childrens cereal and whatnot is going to make the smoking everyplace of generations past look like rainbows and unicorns
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Old April 12th, 2018, 03:51 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Sabcat View Post
That is kinda the chicken and the egg is it not?

Does it still require more calories to produce ethanol than the ethanol itself produces?

If so why the ethanol rage? To appease the clean energy gods? To feed the subsidized corn farmers who in turn push the corn lobby?

I do know that e85 is basically race fuel so that is cool but at what cost?

Everyone is so worried about "climate change" and trump tweets but we are putting corn in goddamn near everything and it is basically poison. Our corn syrup childrens cereal and whatnot is going to make the smoking everyplace of generations past look like rainbows and unicorns
Honeybees are gone and thank goodness that the Bumble Bee is also gone. Wild Black Raspberries died out and Elderberries died. I can live without honey and elderberry wine but want Wild Black Raspberries. For city people there is a difference between black raspberry and blackberry.
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Old April 12th, 2018, 04:00 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabcat View Post
That is kinda the chicken and the egg is it not?

Does it still require more calories to produce ethanol than the ethanol itself produces?

If so why the ethanol rage? To appease the clean energy gods? To feed the subsidized corn farmers who in turn push the corn lobby?

I do know that e85 is basically race fuel so that is cool but at what cost?

Everyone is so worried about "climate change" and trump tweets but we are putting corn in goddamn near everything and it is basically poison. Our corn syrup childrens cereal and whatnot is going to make the smoking everyplace of generations past look like rainbows and unicorns
Yeah, I'm afraid pretty much everyone knows that corn is about the dumbest fucking thing possible to make ethanol from. Had to kiss the ass of farm state Congressman & Senators as well as the good folks at Monsanto, etc.
Fucking hemp is what they should be using.
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