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Old December 10th, 2014, 08:54 AM   #1
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What does the US get in return for being allies with Ukraine?

There are a few people on this site and around the world who think we need to arm the Ukrainians and fight the Russians. What good would that do?

What is the United States' interest in Ukraine?
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Old December 10th, 2014, 10:58 AM   #2
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aren't we in a ton of debt?? how are we going to afford getting into another costly war?? how many americans would die? we need to stay out of it!
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Old December 10th, 2014, 12:00 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by Raconteur View Post
There are a few people on this site and around the world who think we need to arm the Ukrainians and fight the Russians. What good would that do?

What is the United States' interest in Ukraine?
this:

Ukraine crisis is about Great Power oil, gas pipeline rivalry | Nafeez Ahmed | Environment | The Guardian

Quote:
But US efforts to turn the political tide in Ukraine away from Russian influence began much earlier. In 2004, the Bush administration had given $65 million to provide 'democracy training' to opposition leaders and political activists aligned with them, including paying to bring opposition leader Viktor Yushchenko to meet US leaders and help underwrite exit polls indicating he won disputed elections.

This programme has accelerated under Obama. In a speech at the National Press Club in Washington DC last December as Ukraine's Maidan Square clashes escalated, Nuland confirmed that the US had invested in total "over $5 billion" to "ensure a secure and prosperous and democratic Ukraine" - she specifically congratulated the "Euromaidan" movement.

So it would be naive to assume that this magnitude of US support to organisations politically aligned with the Ukrainian opposition played no role in fostering the pro-Euro-Atlantic movement that has ultimately culminated in Russian-backed President Yanukovych's departure.

Indeed, at her 2013 speech, Nuland added:

"Today, there are senior officials in the Ukrainian government, in the business community, as well as in the opposition, civil society, and religious community, who believe in this democratic and European future for their country. And they've been working hard to move their country and their president in the right direction."

What direction might that be? A glimpse of an answer was provided over a decade ago by Professor R. Craig Nation, Director of Russian and Eurasian Studies at the US Army War College's Strategic Studies Institute, in a NATO publication:

"Ukraine is increasingly perceived to be critically situated in the emerging battle to dominate energy transport corridors linking the oil and natural gas reserves of the Caspian basin to European markets... Considerable competition has already emerged over the construction of pipelines. Whether Ukraine will provide alternative routes helping to diversify access, as the West would prefer, or 'find itself forced to play the role of a Russian subsidiary,' remains to be seen."
Oil. The reason behind most wars we fight now.
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Old December 10th, 2014, 02:47 PM   #4
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One has to wonder why America's #1 ally isn't assisting in the war on terror by fighting the Islamic State? After all Israel is close to that region and the Israeli military is suppose to be such bad asses.

Could it be Israel is just concerned with Israel? If that's the case, Israel is not a good ally.
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Old December 10th, 2014, 03:00 PM   #5
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One has to wonder why America's #1 ally isn't assisting in the war on terror by fighting the Islamic State? After all Israel is close to that region and the Israeli military is suppose to be such bad asses.

Could it be Israel is just concerned with Israel? If that's the case, Israel is not a good ally.
Israelis killing Arabs and making war in an Arab country.....hmmmm? Does that really sound like a good idea to you? It's been said before, you wanna ruin a coalition of Arab states fighting ISIS? Bring Israel into the mix. It may be one thing for an Arab to kill another Arab, but it's whole different ballpark for a Jew to be doing the killing.

Doesn't anyone remember the First Gulf War? Remember Saddam Insane launching Scuds at Israel? He was doing that in hopes that Israel would retaliate, thus weakening the coalition and taking the spotlight off him and putting it on Israel.
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Old December 10th, 2014, 03:45 PM   #6
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Israelis killing Arabs and making war in an Arab country.....hmmmm? Does that really sound like a good idea to you? It's been said before, you wanna ruin a coalition of Arab states fighting ISIS? Bring Israel into the mix. It may be one thing for an Arab to kill another Arab, but it's whole different ballpark for a Jew to be doing the killing.

Doesn't anyone remember the First Gulf War? Remember Saddam Insane launching Scuds at Israel? He was doing that in hopes that Israel would retaliate, thus weakening the coalition and taking the spotlight off him and putting it on Israel.
Lighten up Francis.

That's what we anglers call call a popping bug. Even presented in an unknown lake, pond, river or creek it's sure to attract at least a bluegill or even a shell cracker.

"you wanna ruin a coalition of Arab states fighting ISIS?"

I want all you perpetually at war monotheists to fuck off. Stop troubling the world with your bullshit and take it somewhere else perhaps like Mars or New Jersey.

Just how long has your "My god is better than your god and I'll kill you to prove it" monkey shit been going on now?

How long have you been serving god with the devil to pay?
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Old December 10th, 2014, 03:46 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Atehequa View Post
One has to wonder why America's #1 ally isn't assisting in the war on terror by fighting the Islamic State? After all Israel is close to that region and the Israeli military is suppose to be such bad asses.

Could it be Israel is just concerned with Israel? If that's the case, Israel is not a good ally.
This is the FIRST post I've seen of yours where you seem dim witted. Sorry, matey...either you are incredibly naive or you just don't see the reason why JEWS cannot ATTACK their MOSLEM neighbours......

Nope...you ain't no dope...so I think you are just poking Rac in the eye.......

That's my call.........
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Old December 10th, 2014, 03:50 PM   #8
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Lighten up Francis.

That's what we anglers call call a popping bug. Even presented in an unknown lake, pond, river or creek it's sure to attract at least a bluegill or even a shell cracker.

"you wanna ruin a coalition of Arab states fighting ISIS?"

I want all you perpetually at war monotheists to fuck off. Stop troubling the world with your bullshit and take it somewhere else perhaps like Mars or New Jersey.

Just how long has your "My god is better than your god and I'll kill you to prove it" monkey shit been going on now?

How long have you been serving god with the devil to pay?
Wrongly perceived...

Sure, the Moslem nations are monotheistic...but Israel is a secular country. They are a lot like the rest of us...with the threat of a lightning strike if they enter a synagogue. I've been there. The Hassidic Orthodoxy is monotheist...but occupies the same niche that the US religious right does.

It's existence for Israelis...not whether or not Yahweh (whatever) drives the car........
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Old December 10th, 2014, 03:50 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Tony View Post
This is the FIRST post I've seen of yours where you seem dim witted. Sorry, matey...either you are incredibly naive or you just don't see the reason why JEWS cannot ATTACK their MOSLEM neighbours......

Nope...you ain't no dope...so I think you are just poking Rac in the eye.......

That's my call.........
He actually reminds of someone else from a different site. If it's him, he is dimwitted.

Is that you fireatwill?
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Old December 10th, 2014, 03:55 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by Tony View Post
This is the FIRST post I've seen of yours where you seem dim witted. Sorry, matey...either you are incredibly naive or you just don't see the reason why JEWS cannot ATTACK their MOSLEM neighbours......

Nope...you ain't no dope...so I think you are just poking Rac in the eye.......

That's my call.........
Dimwitted, or could it be we think different? I'll have to admit it's painfully difficult for me to think like a white man, ni konah. We are who we are.
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