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Old May 16th, 2018, 10:41 AM   #11
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Old May 16th, 2018, 11:14 AM   #12
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Granted German cars are still the best even though Merkel is trying her best to fuck that up too
Bull. German cars break down all the time and cost a fortune to maintain or repair. You can't even trust their honesty any more after that VW scandal.

I know two VW dealership mechanics. They both drive Toyotas. Why? It thats six times longer to work on it than just about any Japanese car except for Isuzu and Mazda. The parts are 4 times the cost. To change an oxygen sensor just to pass smog, a friend of mine to spend $3 because they have to remove or take apart nearly everything under the hood.

People buy Mercedez's and BMW's only for the perceived status. They have lousy resale value, and anything more then 10 years old or over 100K miles are almost worthless because people are sick of throwing cash at a money pit. Have you ever looked on Craigslist for used cars? Don't ever buy any ML or X4/X5, you'll be happier with a Kia.
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Old May 16th, 2018, 03:16 PM   #13
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Bull. German cars break down all the time and cost a fortune to maintain or repair. You can't even trust their honesty any more after that VW scandal.

I know two VW dealership mechanics. They both drive Toyotas. Why? It thats six times longer to work on it than just about any Japanese car except for Isuzu and Mazda. The parts are 4 times the cost. To change an oxygen sensor just to pass smog, a friend of mine to spend $3 because they have to remove or take apart nearly everything under the hood.

People buy Mercedez's and BMW's only for the perceived status. They have lousy resale value, and anything more then 10 years old or over 100K miles are almost worthless because people are sick of throwing cash at a money pit. Have you ever looked on Craigslist for used cars? Don't ever buy any ML or X4/X5, you'll be happier with a Kia.


I dissagree. It depends on what you want out of a car. As for resale value...cars are a depreciating asset but if you are looking at investing look at 911s especially air cooled also e30, e39 and e46 m cars.
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Old May 16th, 2018, 07:50 PM   #14
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I dissagree. It depends on what you want out of a car. As for resale value...cars are a depreciating asset but if you are looking at investing look at 911s especially air cooled also e30, e39 and e46 m cars.
We're talking practicality and not car collecting and maintaining it in storage. You can do that with anything.

I'm talking about best bang for the buck per mile/year for everyday commuting or work.

If you want safety features, there is nothing the Germans have over anyone else with the exception of the Chinese.

Gas mileage? Nope. Get real. Cheating with onboard computer and lying to their customers?

Off the line? Nope.

Performance? Nope. Give me a used Subaru, a high performance store and any decent Fast and Furious mechanic, and any M driver will be wondering why he wasted all his money when he is eating exhaust from a rice rocket.

I guarantee you that if you are a road warrior, all those cars you just mentioned will fall apart before most Japanese cars with equivalent mileage/year manufactured that will continue to soldier on with very little expenses in upkeep another two, three, or four fold in mileage and years in service. You would have spent many times more on that German car before it falls apart in everything from original sticker price, maintenance and repairs, and down to even the insurance, just to watch that Toyota or Honda driving by when your German car is towed to the junkyard.
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Last edited by Marcus Livius; May 16th, 2018 at 08:40 PM. Reason: spelling
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Old May 16th, 2018, 10:39 PM   #15
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We're talking practicality and not car collecting and maintaining it in storage. You can do that with anything.

I'm talking about best bang for the buck per mile/year for everyday commuting or work.

If you want safety features, there is nothing the Germans have over anyone else with the exception of the Chinese.

Gas mileage? Nope. Get real. Cheating with onboard computer and lying to their customers?

Off the line? Nope.

Performance? Nope. Give me a used Subaru, a high performance store and any decent Fast and Furious mechanic, and any M driver will be wondering why he wasted all his money when he is eating exhaust from a rice rocket.

I guarantee you that if you are a road warrior, all those cars you just mentioned will fall apart before most Japanese cars with equivalent mileage/year manufactured that will continue to soldier on with very little expenses in upkeep another two, three, or four fold in mileage and years in service. You would have spent many times more on that German car before it falls apart in everything from original sticker price, maintenance and repairs, and down to even the insurance, just to watch that Toyota or Honda driving by when your German car is towed to the junkyard.

That is why I said it depends on what you are looking for in a car. You may have been talking about practicality but not me. I am talking about driving enjoyment. I live on the bus line if I want to be practical.

What was the last Japanese engine that the world coveted...? The 2JZ? I think that was in...what? Oh yeah...a supra



New Toyota Supra to get 450bhp BMW straight-six engine


Quote:

The new Toyota Supra is coming – it’ll be unveiled at the Detroit Show in January 2019. Meanwhile we have this track-look concept. Its body panels are production reality. Just take off the rear wing, flicks, splitter and sports-hall-sized diffuser.

The Supra is a joint project with BMW, but, “they are not the same kind of car,” the Supra’s project chief Tetsuya Tada tells Top Gear. “We will continue the heritage of the Supra, a pure sports car. There are fewer common elements than you would imagine. It’s not like the GT86 and Subaru.”

And Tada would know. He led the GT86 project too, and he ensured that was a pure sports car. Remember, the new Z4 will be a gentler soft-top. “The exterior and interior design [of the Supra] is Toyota.” In other words, very different from the BMW, which we’ve also seen in concept form.

I like JDM cars and had a supra when I first got married. It was no Porsche or BMW.

Last edited by Sabcat; May 16th, 2018 at 10:50 PM.
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Old May 18th, 2018, 07:37 PM   #16
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That is why I said it depends on what you are looking for in a car. You may have been talking about practicality but not me. I am talking about driving enjoyment. I live on the bus line if I want to be practical.

What was the last Japanese engine that the world coveted...? The 2JZ? I think that was in...what? Oh yeah...a supra



New Toyota Supra to get 450bhp BMW straight-six engine





I like JDM cars and had a supra when I first got married. It was no Porsche or BMW.
Taking the bus is not practical, it is a necessity for those the for some reason cannot or will not drive. There is nothing practical about picking up your kids or taking Grandma with her walker and oxygen bottle to the doctor on on the bus.

I understood what you said already in your earlier post that some want a particular car for driving pleasure. For the sake of discussion, let's assume that one only has the means of buying and keeping one car, and lead a normal life that revolves around going to work and doing everyday things.

With this one car, one must drive to work, pick up and drive family members around, run errands such as going to the post office, grocery shopping, appointments, gatherings, celebrations, etc. All these tasks and chores hinges upon the reliability of the vehicle and it's longevity without having to spend more money that one expected because then it actually become a burden, especially if one' life is very busy and is dependent on a tight budget.

The German car argument would only be valid if all currently produced now are high end cars targeted for those with a rich and leisure lifestyle looking for "Fahrvergnügen". However that is not the case since they build such things as hatchbacks, station wagons, SUV's, vans, tiniest clown cars ever made, electric vehicles, and anything else under the sun to try to meet every demand. Sadly, they mostly do not deliver except for the initial performances of certain models.

Remember when Japanese cars were laughed at for being tin cans? Everyone stopped laughing a long time ago and emulated them and their manufacturing techniques. Tesla's are built at NUMMI which is a manufacturing that the Japanese originally built to teach GM how to properly manufacture cars. Chevrolet Prizm's were built there, and they are nothing more than than Toyota Corolla's with a different badge. The Chevy Prizm holds more resale value than any other GM vehicle of that same era. I recently saw a 1995 basic model with standard transmission in barely fair condition with nothing more than a fan, basic radio, and window cranks at a BMW dealer asking for $4995.00 FIRM...one owner.

I kid you not, I was looking for a used and cheap beater-upper car with which to do my shopping and hauling, and have never seen any dealership take in such an old trade-in, especially at a prestigious brand name such as BMW. I was driving slowly down "Auto Row" and that Prizm was elevated!

That original owner bought a really cheap car and it seemed to have served him well, seeing that he traded it in at a BMW dealership 23 years later and they accepted it. I hope he has done his research regarding BMW's.

BMW has in recent times have been consistently ranked below average in reliability with two models in top five most unreliable. They also average about 140 issues per 100 cars, above average. My friend has a 6 and from the day after he drove if off the lot, it has shown that he has a flat tire even when he does not. They never was able to fix that, and he never received compensation.
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Last edited by Marcus Livius; May 18th, 2018 at 07:46 PM.
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Old May 18th, 2018, 11:13 PM   #17
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Taking the bus is not practical, it is a necessity for those the for some reason cannot or will not drive. There is nothing practical about picking up your kids or taking Grandma with her walker and oxygen bottle to the doctor on on the bus.

I understood what you said already in your earlier post that some want a particular car for driving pleasure. For the sake of discussion, let's assume that one only has the means of buying and keeping one car, and lead a normal life that revolves around going to work and doing everyday things.

With this one car, one must drive to work, pick up and drive family members around, run errands such as going to the post office, grocery shopping, appointments, gatherings, celebrations, etc. All these tasks and chores hinges upon the reliability of the vehicle and it's longevity without having to spend more money that one expected because then it actually become a burden, especially if one' life is very busy and is dependent on a tight budget.

The German car argument would only be valid if all currently produced now are high end cars targeted for those with a rich and leisure lifestyle looking for "Fahrvergnügen". However that is not the case since they build such things as hatchbacks, station wagons, SUV's, vans, tiniest clown cars ever made, electric vehicles, and anything else under the sun to try to meet every demand. Sadly, they mostly do not deliver except for the initial performances of certain models.

Remember when Japanese cars were laughed at for being tin cans? Everyone stopped laughing a long time ago and emulated them and their manufacturing techniques. Tesla's are built at NUMMI which is a manufacturing that the Japanese originally built to teach GM how to properly manufacture cars. Chevrolet Prizm's were built there, and they are nothing more than than Toyota Corolla's with a different badge. The Chevy Prizm holds more resale value than any other GM vehicle of that same era. I recently saw a 1995 basic model with standard transmission in barely fair condition with nothing more than a fan, basic radio, and window cranks at a BMW dealer asking for $4995.00 FIRM...one owner.

I kid you not, I was looking for a used and cheap beater-upper car with which to do my shopping and hauling, and have never seen any dealership take in such an old trade-in, especially at a prestigious brand name such as BMW. I was driving slowly down "Auto Row" and that Prizm was elevated!

That original owner bought a really cheap car and it seemed to have served him well, seeing that he traded it in at a BMW dealership 23 years later and they accepted it. I hope he has done his research regarding BMW's.

BMW has in recent times have been consistently ranked below average in reliability with two models in top five most unreliable. They also average about 140 issues per 100 cars, above average. My friend has a 6 and from the day after he drove if off the lot, it has shown that he has a flat tire even when he does not. They never was able to fix that, and he never received compensation.


1st. Taking the bus is super practical. I can get anywhere in the city for two bucks. Parking downtown is between $5-30 depending where and when. I can walk about 6 blocks, jump on a bus and get dropped off directly at all 3 major sporting stadium (the wild play in st. Paul)

If you are just buying a car purely for practical purposes then I would say you spend $500-$1500 on whatever car you can find that passes a good inspection and run it into the ground. My 86 3 series was the best car I ever owned that didn't come off a dealership lot. That thing was indestructible and super easy to work on. My f250 literally burst into flames as i drove it and almost killed me. All cars built today are disposable and are designed to fall apart once the warranty runs out. There is a reason though that Kia are stealing as many people from audi and BMW as they can get their hands on.

But talk about framing an argument. Here I was talking about the engineering prowess and how a little nation took on the world more than once and now we are what...talking about who from the axis powers still makes the better car? Well give me a Porsche any day of the week. Don't forget to build the internal on your subie and those boxer engine blows a rod once you start pushing 500 bhp w/ em otherwise
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Old May 19th, 2018, 11:34 AM   #18
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How cute! A conspiracy theorist!

In Trump's zeal to destroy every attempt at peace made by former Presidents, we can take comfort in the fact that the mantle of leadership of the free world has been handed over to Angela Merkel.
Isn't that what you posted? Or is it just your wet-dream?
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