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Old January 28th, 2008, 08:03 PM   #1
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First Amendment rights being violated

I am on disability living in public housing in St. Joseph,MI. Our building used to include free cable with our rent but the reception sucked. I contacted the office to ask them to fix it and I was told I was the only tenant in the building with a cable TV problem. I decided to take a petition around the building and got a lot of signatures and a lot of tenants said they were also told they were the only ones having a problem. I turned in my petition to the office and I have been harassed and discriminated against ever since.



First I received an email from the manager saying not to talk about the cable to other residents. Then HUD found out that the city was illegally paying for the cable TV with tax payers money. HUD told the St. Joseph Housing Commission that they could not use HUD funds to pay for cable TV so the city shut the cable off.



The city leaders,elected officials and Housing Commissioners are telling the tenants here that they lost their free cable because of me instead of stepping up and taking the responsibility. If they wouldn't have set up the cable TV illegally the cable would not have been shut off. They are cowards that want to put the blame on a disabled guy. They have violated my right to petition the government without punishment.



They continue to harass and discriminate against me.



The St. Joseph,MI Mayor,Mary Goff and the city manager,Frank Walsh,are cowards that lie about what they illegally did and put the blame on a disabled guy.
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Old January 28th, 2008, 08:27 PM   #2
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I don't see where anyone is blaming you because you're disabled, to put it simply...



You just stated, that it was you who got the ball rolling about the cable situation. That your actions were what contributed to HUD finding out about the illegal cable situation occuring.



The simple truth of the matter is, irregardless of your being disabled or not, your actions of instigating a petition to address the cable issues with the management of the complex, is what caused yourself and the other tenants to lose their free access to that cable usership.



Not your disability, but yourself and your wish to get cable addressed. And the cable was addressed, just not to the liking of yourself and those that signed your petition in the manner you'd hoped for.



So, even though your unsatisfied with how it turned out, you are actually 'responsible' for the outcome to your petition. Simply put, if you hadn't used that process to try to get management to fix the problem, then goverment officials/HUD wouldn't have been any the wiser that tax payer dollars were being mishandled in the first place by your landlord/management.



Your petition drew their attention and the disconnect. It sucks, sure...But that is what is causing your current position that you are upset about. Not your disability, nor really the 'goverment officials'...Because they weren't the ones that set it up...



The management/landlord of your complex, who's accepting goverment funds, were the ones giving you an 'extra' at the expense of the taxpayers...Not the city officials you are trying to blame. And you basically blew the whistle on that 'extra' yourself, as well as those that signed the petition because of your pursuit of the matter...



And the city stepped in, decided to investigate why one of their managers were being complained about, and BAM! HUD was called in to straighten out the situation that was abusing tax payer monies.



And if you hadn't been disabled, but still started such a complaint...You'd still get blamed cause you got the ball rolling to begin with.
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Old January 28th, 2008, 08:39 PM   #3
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Actually the mayor appoints the Housing Commission board and the staff here are city employee's. This is a city Housing Commission. So the elected officials are responsible for illegally paying for the cable TV. Not the tenants. The petition said to fix the cable,not shut it off.



I'm not upset about the out come of the cable because the reception was bad because of old wiring in the building. They would have had to be replaced anyways because they would not have picked up the digital signals that the government is switching to from analog signals.



I'm also not saying my First Amendment Rights are being violated because I'm disabled. They are being violated because the U.S. Constitution says I have the right to petition the government without punishment but I am now being harassed and discriminated against.



What I am saying is city manager Frank Walsh and Mayor Mary Goff are corrupt cowards and they are not real leaders.
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Old January 28th, 2008, 09:01 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by no rights
Actually the mayor appoints the Housing Commisson board and the staff here are city employee's. This is a city Housing Commission. So the elected officials are responsable for illegaly paying for the cable TV. Not the tenants. The petition said to fix the cable,not shut it off.



I'm not upset about the out come of the cable because the recpetion was bead because of old wiring in the building. They would have had to be replaced anyways because they would not have picked up the digital signals that the government is swithcing to from anolog signals.



I'm also not saying my First Amendment Rights are being violated because I'm disabled. They are being violated because the U.S. Constitution says I have the right to petition the government without punishment but I am now being harrassed and discriminated against.


ROTFLMAOL!



1. It may be city housing, but the managers are civilians and not elected officials. And they are the ones that do 'add ons', not the city.



2. No, the management was the one responsible for funneling tax payer money towards illegal cable, not the city officials. The city officials trusted the management not to abuse the system...Unfortunately their trust was misplaced.



3. The petition may have said 'fix the cable' and not 'cut cable off', but it was because of your petition that it resulted in it being cut off. Now those that had that 'extra' are upset they no longer have access to it...And since it was you who got them all fired up to complain in written form...That puts the blame on you. If not for your approaching them, encouraging them to complain, they wouldn't have done so and would still have access to their cable...Even bad reception, it was perferable then none at all.



4. Obviously you are upset about it...Your opening post was about how you were being blamed for it's loss. So trying to say otherwise is deception on your own part.



5. The city wouldn't have addressed the issue of cable change in the future, to begin with. Not unless the management approached them about it, and in that case, HUD still would have cut off free access to cable once the city investigated WHY the management was calling for a 'cable upgrade' and discovered that ya'll were getting free cable versus you were paying out of your own pockets for cable access.



6. I didn't say you said your first admendment rights were being violated because of your disability...I was referring to your comment "put the blame on a disabled guy". Nobody was putting the blame on you cause you are disabled. They're putting the blame on you because you were the one who started the petition. Period.



7. How was your first admendment rights being violated? Simply put, they were not. You weren't kept from creating that petition at all. You did so, forwarded it to those you wanted to address your situation, and then a determination was made based off the information collected from your petition as well as the investigation prompted by that petition of the management of your housing complex...



And your petition, which was allowed to occure, resulted in the free cable access being denied to those receiving goverment housing benefits.



You are not being punished by 'the goverment' for creating and sending in a petition. You are being punished by your fellow tenants for their losing their free access to cable at the benefit/misuse of tax payer funds. Period.



You're being 'harrassed and discriminated' by the people in your building, not the goverment. And they are doing it, because they aren't taking responsibility for their own actions of signing your petition in complaint too.



Sorry to tell you this, but like I already said, just cause you can do something doesn't mean it'll turn out the way you wish it to once you do it...



And in this case, you wished to create a petition, which you did so...

You wished to present that petition to the authorities to review and make a judgement, which they did...



But you didn't get the answer to that petition you desired so now you have to face your neighbors and their anger at you for taking away something they didn't want to lose.



That's not the goverment's fault. That's not your goverment harrassing/discriminating against you. Nor is it a violation of your first amendment rights either. Because at no time did 'the goverment' stop or keep you from doing what you did. And it's not them now blaming you for what resulted from your actions...But those others who participated with you, who now are on the lossing end of the actions you started in the first place.
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Old January 28th, 2008, 09:13 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlicornsPrayer
ROTFLMAOL!



1. It may be city housing, but the managers are civilians and not elected officials. And they are the ones that do 'add ons', not the city.



2. No, the management was the one responsible for funneling tax payer money towards illegal cable, not the city officials. The city officials trusted the management not to abuse the system...Unfortunately their trust was misplaced.



3. The petition may have said 'fix the cable' and not 'cut cable off', but it was because of your petition that it resulted in it being cut off. Now those that had that 'extra' are upset they no longer have access to it...And since it was you who got them all fired up to complain in written form...That puts the blame on you. If not for your approaching them, encouraging them to complain, they wouldn't have done so and would still have access to their cable...Even bad reception, it was perferable then none at all.



4. Obviously you are upset about it...Your opening post was about how you were being blamed for it's loss. So trying to say otherwise is deception on your own part.



5. The city wouldn't have addressed the issue of cable change in the future, to begin with. Not unless the management approached them about it, and in that case, HUD still would have cut off free access to cable once the city investigated WHY the management was calling for a 'cable upgrade' and discovered that ya'll were getting free cable versus you were paying out of your own pockets for cable access.



6. I didn't say you said your first admendment rights were being violated because of your disability...I was referring to your comment "put the blame on a disabled guy". Nobody was putting the blame on you cause you are disabled. They're putting the blame on you because you were the one who started the petition. Period.



7. How was your first admendment rights being violated? Simply put, they were not. You weren't kept from creating that petition at all. You did so, forwarded it to those you wanted to address your situation, and then a determination was made based off the information collected from your petition as well as the investigation prompted by that petition of the management of your housing complex...



And your petition, which was allowed to occure, resulted in the free cable access being denied to those receiving goverment housing benefits.



You are not being punished by 'the goverment' for creating and sending in a petition. You are being punished by your fellow tenants for their losing their free access to cable at the benefit/misuse of tax payer funds. Period.



You're being 'harrassed and discriminated' by the people in your building, not the goverment. And they are doing it, because they aren't taking responsibility for their own actions of signing your petition in complaint too.



Sorry to tell you this, but like I already said, just cause you can do something doesn't mean it'll turn out the way you wish it to once you do it...



And in this case, you wished to create a petition, which you did so...

You wished to present that petition to the authorities to review and make a judgement, which they did...



But you didn't get the answer to that petition you desired so now you have to face your neighbors and their anger at you for taking away something they didn't want to lose.



That's not the goverment's fault. That's not your goverment harrassing/discriminating against you. Nor is it a violation of your first amendment rights either. Because at no time did 'the goverment' stop or keep you from doing what you did. And it's not them now blaming you for what resulted from your actions...But those others who participated with you, who now are on the lossing end of the actions you started in the first place.


1. Management are city emplyees,employed by City Hall.



2. The management are city officials. The Housing Commission Director,again,is a city emplyee.



3. The tenants that chose to sign the petition did so on their own. No one forced them.



4. Again,I'm not upset about the cable. I'm defending the U.S. Constitution and my rights.



5. City hall was well aware that tenants were getting free cable with HUD money.



6. The city officials are putting the blame on me because they don't want to admit to the residents that they are at fault for legal reasons.



7. Read the First Amendment Rights.



I am being harrassed and discriminated against by the city employees that work here.
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Old January 29th, 2008, 03:16 AM   #6
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Hi No Rights!



Where are you getting online at?



OhDear

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Old January 29th, 2008, 03:33 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by OhDear
Hi No Rights!



Where are you getting online at?



OhDear






I seriously doubt that the library was open that late...
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Old January 29th, 2008, 04:06 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by no rights
1. Management are city emplyees,employed by City Hall.



2. The management are city officials. The Housing Commission Director,again,is a city emplyee.



3. The tenants that chose to sign the petition did so on their own. No one forced them.



4. Again,I'm not upset about the cable. I'm defending the U.S. Constitution and my rights.



5. City hall was well aware that tenants were getting free cable with HUD money.



6. The city officials are putting the blame on me because they don't want to admit to the residents that they are at fault for legal reasons.



7. Read the First Amendment Rights.



I am being harrassed and discriminated against by the city employees that work here.


NR...I don't know if you're aware of it or not....But public housing isn't unique to your area. And they're ran all over the country the same way...



1. No, the management of housing complexes are not 'city employees'. They (as in the managers) are monitored/payed by the city, but are not themselves city employees.



2. Same as above...The management of the housing project are ordinary citizens that submit a monthly bill to the city saying it costs x amount of dollars per unit each month...And the city signs off a check for the agreed amount contracted between the manager and city at the time a resident applies for rental. HUD/State Housing sets for each resident, a maximum living expense amount allowance and the manager accepts/denies residency determined by the rate the occupant has been alloted for monthly rental allowance.



3. I didn't say you forced them...I said you ENCOURAGED them to do so. If you hadn't went door-to-door asking them about their cable, if you hadn't come up with the idea to start a petition and encouraged them to sign it with the promise of getting the problem fixed, they'd still have their illegal cable at the tax payers' expense.



4. You're not defending your rights. You never had your rights denied or taken away. You are whining and complaining about not getting things done the way you wanted, and are upset that others are upset at you for thier loss and trouble.



You're only trying to hide behind 'my rights were violated' and 'I'm being harrassed/discriminated against' to not take responsibility for what you initiated. You're trying to blame everyone and their mother for something YOU did.



5. And you have that in writing? Or you're just assuming that because the building managers were giving it away, then the 'city' had to have known? If that was the case, then when it had come to the attention of the city in the first place, they wouldn't have given HUD a chance to investigate.



Sorry darling...But you're off base completely about that. The management should have informed the city about the cable, but that doesn't mean that they did so. Just cause cable was built into the building doesn't mean that the city itself was allowing 'free cable access'...More then likely, they were led to believe that for residents living there, that the residents were paying out of their own pockets for the service.



Just like your internet access you're using to post your 'oh, I've been sooo mistreated'...I'm assuming that you are using phone, not cable internet? Well, the building contractors put in phone lines as well as cable lines...But their putting that into the drawing plan doesn't mean that the city is saying 'the tenents are allowed to receive free telephone/internet access'...It means that the city is saying that for those that can afford it, they won't be denied the access to purchase that access themselves out of the tenants own pocket...



The builiding managers though on the other hand, painted it as 'free access' to the tenant, by spiking up the monthly rental cost and billing the city without telling them that that spike in cost included free cable access to the tenants. And the city sent them a check without knowing that there was a hidden charge to the bill the managers sent.



6. No, the city isn't blaming you for those reasons. The city is saying that for those complaining to them about the cable being gone, to look towards you for that answer. Cause if you hadn't been the one to start the ball rolling, the city would have remained clueless about the spiked rental charges that included 'free cable'.



You are the one at fault for the tenants losing their cable access. You did the city and tax payers a favor by blowing the whistle on the management abusing the system...Even though that wasn't your intention. And now people are upset, and you're the one responsible for that upset.



It isn't fair, sure...But it was your actions that caused the results that they are experiencing now.



7. Why do you assume I haven't read them? Cause I don't agree with your 'I'm a victim' posturing?



Sorry, but there is nothing in the amendment that makes you a victim. You are not having your freedom taken away, you have not been denied the right to express your opinion, and you have not been imprisoned for your actions. You've been allowed and continue to use your rights to complain about what happened. People have said that you should have done it differently/not at all...But you weren't stopped from doing it anyways.



You've lost your cable...But losing it didn't violate your rights in any way.



You've been critisized for what you did...But being critisized isn't violating your rights.



You've been shunned/disliked for what you did by others...But that isn't a violation of your rights.



All you are simply doing is whining about not getting the results you wanted accomplished and blaming others for the position you put them and yourself in when you decided to try to get illegal cable access repaired.



All simple things that if you'd not exercised your right to petition, wouldn't have happened to begin with. You exercised your rights, continue to exercise your rights, but you're just not reaping 'the rewards' you thought you would...Instead of reaping a sweet havest, you're reaping a bitter one from your exercising of your rights.
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Old January 29th, 2008, 04:38 AM   #9
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Hey no rights, did you have to sign a contract to move into that place? If so, did the contract state you would receive free cable? If so, when they turned it off, it was a breach of contract. Its not your fault they were stealing cable. You should take them to court.
 
Old January 29th, 2008, 07:25 AM   #10
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Hey no rights, did you have to sign a contract to move into that place? If so, did the contract state you would receive free cable? If so, when they turned it off, it was a breach of contract. Its not your fault they were stealing cable. You should take them to court.


I have a lease but they don't mention anything about the cable TV in it. Imagine that! They did tell me that cable TV is included in my rent and that is a verbal binding contract in this state.
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