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Old March 12th, 2012, 07:24 AM   #1
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http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...g.html?hpid=z4



A Gaithersburg Catholic priest who triggered national debate late last month when he denied Communion to a lesbian at her mother’s funeral Mass has been placed on administrative leave from ministry in the Washington archdiocese.



Specific details about why the Rev. Marcel Guarnizo was barred from ministry – a severe penalty – were not immediately available. The Post learned of the action from a letter dated March 9 that is written to other archdiocesan priests.



The letter from Bishop Barry Knestout, a top administrator in the archdiocese, which covers Washington and the Maryland suburbs, says the punishment was for “engaging in intimidating behavior toward parish staff and others that is incompatible with proper priestly ministry.”



The archdiocese on Sunday confirmed Guarnizo's removal, and noted that Knestout's letter was read at all Masses this weekend at St. John Neumann. The pastor there, the Rev. Thomas LaHood, added some additional comments, including noting -- and repeating -- that the removal was not related to the Communion standoff, but "pertains to actions over the past week or two." He did not elaborate.



In announcing the penalty on Sunday, LaHood spoke at some length about the disagreements that have unfolded in the parish because of the funeral Mass scene.



"As we know there’s been disagreement within the parish over how and to whom Communion is distributed. From my perspective this disagreement and related emotions flow from love. Love for Christ, really and truly present in the Eucharist.




However, how we live out this love is important. The Scriptures tell us that we are known above all by how we love," he said before reading the letter. After, he said "I realize this letter is hard to hear. Please keep mind that this is a first personnel issue, dealing with issues of ministry in the church. Father Guarnizo will have every opportunity to present his position."



An archdiocesan spokeswoman Sunday would not clarify if LaHood's comments meant that Guarnizo would not be penalized for his handling of Barbara Johnson at the funeral.



While it was not clear what transpired within the parish in the past week or so that triggered the penalty, several bloggers have defended Guarnizo and claimed, citing anonymous witnesses, that Johnson's version of the story is inaccurate.




Johnson, 51, a D.C. artist, has said that as she approached Guarnizo in the Communion line that day, he covered the bread and told her that he could not give her the sacrament “because you live with a woman, and in the eyes of the church, that is a sin.”



Guarnizo has refused to comment on what happened at the Mass.



Johnson declined to comment Sunday beyond this statement:



“The Johnson family continues to pray for the Archdiocese of Washington, Father Guarnizo, and all Catholics during this time of upheaval. While we understand this letter does not pertain to the events that occurred at our mother's funeral, we are hopeful that Bishop Knestout's decision will ensure that no others will have to undergo the traumatic experiences brought upon our family. We urge all Catholics to put aside political points of view, and pray that our Church will remain in Christ's love."



The interaction between Johnson and Guarnizo, who grew up in Northern Virginia and has spent much of his ministry in Russia and Eastern Europe, triggered intense debate and feelings among Catholics on the Web.



Some said being in a same-sex relationship makes someone automatically ineligible for Communion, a moment that Catholicism teaches creates the actual presence of Jesus Christ and is not for people outside of a "state of grace." Others said the process of determining a person’s “state of grace” is a far more complex and personal, something between a Catholic and God.



In the days after the funeral Mass, the archdiocese issued an apology to Johnson and sent a letter stating that Guarnizo’s refusal of Communion to her was against the policy of Archbishop Donald Wuerl, who has said it is not the right time or place for a spiritual standoff. But in a public statement published by the Post, the archdiocese seemed to imply that both sides were at fault:



“We believe that to receive Communion, a person should be in the state of grace, which means that they are not conscious of having committed a sin serious enough that it ruptures their relationship with God. As with any relationship, it is not just a one-sided judgment that determines what hurts the relationship with God.



This determination is based on what the Church teaches objectively from sacred Scripture and tradition of Christian experience. If a person is conscious of having committed a grave sin, he or she may not receive Communion until they have received absolution in the Sacrament of Reconciliation.



A person who is conscious of grave sin but has no opportunity to go to Confession may receive Communion for a serious reason, but first that person must pray to Christ expressing their sorrow, also known as a perfect act of contrition, and have the intention of going to Confession as soon as possible.”



According to Johnson, this weekend's homily from St. John Neumann's pastor, the Rev. Thomas LaHood, repeated that the suspension was unrelated to her case. Some local Catholic bloggers have reacted angrily, though, calling for a boycott of donations to the archdiocese.
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Old March 12th, 2012, 07:42 AM   #2
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Sounds like Father Guarnizo must have serious personal issues. Maybe those contributed to his mistreatment of the woman seeking communion.
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Old March 12th, 2012, 02:20 PM   #3
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I agree this priest was well out of line denying communion to this lesbo.



I wonder if she was doing her part as a good Catholic by expressing repentance for her sinful lesbian behaviour?
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Old March 12th, 2012, 02:28 PM   #4
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I guess the priest was just showing "Catholic love" when he walked out on the eulogy and didn't show up to perform the graveside service.



Curiously, it was actually the archbishop who showed compassion, empathy, and ethics both by apologizing to the family and by suspending the priest.
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Old March 12th, 2012, 02:31 PM   #5
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I guess the priest was just showing "Catholic love" when he walked out on the eulogy and didn't show up to perform the graveside service.




I don't think so, he was being too intolerant, just like you are.



Did we ever learn if the lesbo in the story has made confession of her lesbian sins?
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Old March 12th, 2012, 06:43 PM   #6
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I don't know anybody who makes their confession public.



Why would anybody be interested in another's confession. It's between that person and God. Hell, I'm not even a Catholic and I know that.
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Old March 13th, 2012, 04:21 AM   #7
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Why do homosexuals place themselves in positions they know is wrong and expect a positive result? This woman knew the cannon of the church states she was not to attend communion and she does so anyway. The priest was following his teachings and refused to conduct an action he believed wrong. Now the way he did it was lame but not wrong. Not attending at the grave was wrong, it was about the deceased not her lesbionic daughter. Gays have got to finally get it through their heads that others have the right not to believe as they do and are not bigots for doing so. That different faiths believe what are truths to them. If you don't believe what they do fine but stop trying to force your bigoted beliefs on others.
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Old March 13th, 2012, 06:22 AM   #8
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That different faiths believe what are truths to them. If you don't believe what they do fine but stop trying to force your bigoted beliefs on others.


First you should ask the Catholic church to stop trying to impose its sharia laws on everyone through our secular law.
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Old March 13th, 2012, 08:04 AM   #9
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shriek: professional kool-aid drinker
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Old March 13th, 2012, 01:58 PM   #10
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I don't know anybody who makes their confession public.



Why would anybody be interested in another's confession. It's between that person and God. Hell, I'm not even a Catholic and I know that.




True.



However a good indication of the lesbian's repentance would be if she gave up her lesbian lifestyle.



If she deliberately flouts Christian doctrine and defies God's clear instructions does she still deserve to partake in Mass?
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Old March 13th, 2012, 01:58 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wayne Malley' timestamp='1331641280' post='389240

That different faiths believe what are truths to them. If you don't believe what they do fine but stop trying to force your bigoted beliefs on others.


First you should ask the Catholic church to stop trying to impose its sharia laws on everyone through our secular law.


What laws were broken in this incident?
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Old March 13th, 2012, 06:03 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by gary View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by tristanrobin' timestamp='1331606604' post='389216

I don't know anybody who makes their confession public.



Why would anybody be interested in another's confession. It's between that person and God. Hell, I'm not even a Catholic and I know that.




True.



However a good indication of the lesbian's repentance would be if she gave up her lesbian lifestyle.



If she deliberately flouts Christian doctrine and defies God's clear instructions does she still deserve to partake in Mass?


That really isn't up to you to decide since it is not your job to judge. Neither is it the priest's job to judge. Only God, as per your religion's teachings, can judge whether or not she is "deserving to partake in mass." And considering Jesus allowed EVERYONE to join his congregation, not just the saintly, but sinners, and prostitutes, etc, I would think that Jesus would see her fit to partake in mass. Jesus, unlike some of his followers, did not discriminate. She is as religious as her mother is, or is a lesbian woman not allowed to be religious without having to condemn herself for her orientation?



She doesn't have to give up her "lesbian lifestyle" to be worthy of partaking in mass. But that's your Christian love for you, isn't it gary?
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Old March 14th, 2012, 07:18 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaperAlchemist View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by gary' timestamp='1331675901' post='389360

[quote name='tristanrobin' timestamp='1331606604' post='389216']

I don't know anybody who makes their confession public.



Why would anybody be interested in another's confession. It's between that person and God. Hell, I'm not even a Catholic and I know that.




True.



However a good indication of the lesbian's repentance would be if she gave up her lesbian lifestyle.



If she deliberately flouts Christian doctrine and defies God's clear instructions does she still deserve to partake in Mass?


That really isn't up to you to decide since it is not your job to judge. Neither is it the priest's job to judge. Only God, as per your religion's teachings, can judge whether or not she is "deserving to partake in mass." And considering Jesus allowed EVERYONE to join his congregation, not just the saintly, but sinners, and prostitutes, etc, I would think that Jesus would see her fit to partake in mass. Jesus, unlike some of his followers, did not discriminate. She is as religious as her mother is, or is a lesbian woman not allowed to be religious without having to condemn herself for her orientation?



She doesn't have to give up her "lesbian lifestyle" to be worthy of partaking in mass. But that's your Christian love for you, isn't it gary?

[/quote]







True. When Mary Magdalene was known as a prostitute, she was being stoned by people. But Jesus forgave and loved her, just as much as he would love gays.
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Old March 14th, 2012, 11:00 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gary View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by tristanrobin' timestamp='1331606604' post='389216

I don't know anybody who makes their confession public.



Why would anybody be interested in another's confession. It's between that person and God. Hell, I'm not even a Catholic and I know that.




True.



However a good indication of the lesbian's repentance would be if she gave up her lesbian lifestyle.



If she deliberately flouts Christian doctrine and defies God's clear instructions does she still deserve to partake in Mass?


Did the priest ask her this question before denying her communion at the death mass of her mother?
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Old March 14th, 2012, 11:01 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by H80W View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaperAlchemist' timestamp='1331690626' post='389424

[quote name='gary' timestamp='1331675901' post='389360']

[quote name='tristanrobin' timestamp='1331606604' post='389216']

I don't know anybody who makes their confession public.



Why would anybody be interested in another's confession. It's between that person and God. Hell, I'm not even a Catholic and I know that.




True.



However a good indication of the lesbian's repentance would be if she gave up her lesbian lifestyle.



If she deliberately flouts Christian doctrine and defies God's clear instructions does she still deserve to partake in Mass?


That really isn't up to you to decide since it is not your job to judge. Neither is it the priest's job to judge. Only God, as per your religion's teachings, can judge whether or not she is "deserving to partake in mass." And considering Jesus allowed EVERYONE to join his congregation, not just the saintly, but sinners, and prostitutes, etc, I would think that Jesus would see her fit to partake in mass. Jesus, unlike some of his followers, did not discriminate. She is as religious as her mother is, or is a lesbian woman not allowed to be religious without having to condemn herself for her orientation?



She doesn't have to give up her "lesbian lifestyle" to be worthy of partaking in mass. But that's your Christian love for you, isn't it gary?

[/quote]







True. When Mary Magdalene was known as a prostitute, she was being stoned by people. But Jesus forgave and loved her, just as much as he would love gays.

[/quote]



Magdalene was not a prostitute. She was an independently wealthy woman who didn't follow social norms. She was actually socially beneath a prostitute.
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Old March 14th, 2012, 11:14 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tristanrobin View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by H80W' timestamp='1331738335' post='389477

[quote name='PaperAlchemist' timestamp='1331690626' post='389424']

[quote name='gary' timestamp='1331675901' post='389360']

[quote name='tristanrobin' timestamp='1331606604' post='389216']

I don't know anybody who makes their confession public.



Why would anybody be interested in another's confession. It's between that person and God. Hell, I'm not even a Catholic and I know that.




True.



However a good indication of the lesbian's repentance would be if she gave up her lesbian lifestyle.



If she deliberately flouts Christian doctrine and defies God's clear instructions does she still deserve to partake in Mass?


That really isn't up to you to decide since it is not your job to judge. Neither is it the priest's job to judge. Only God, as per your religion's teachings, can judge whether or not she is "deserving to partake in mass." And considering Jesus allowed EVERYONE to join his congregation, not just the saintly, but sinners, and prostitutes, etc, I would think that Jesus would see her fit to partake in mass. Jesus, unlike some of his followers, did not discriminate. She is as religious as her mother is, or is a lesbian woman not allowed to be religious without having to condemn herself for her orientation?



She doesn't have to give up her "lesbian lifestyle" to be worthy of partaking in mass. But that's your Christian love for you, isn't it gary?

[/quote]







True. When Mary Magdalene was known as a prostitute, she was being stoned by people. But Jesus forgave and loved her, just as much as he would love gays.

[/quote]



Magdalene was not a prostitute. She was an independently wealthy woman who didn't follow social norms. She was actually socially beneath a prostitute.

[/quote]



Thanks for the clarification, Tristan. I guess it all depends on who one listens to. She became a great woman and a saint. The RCC near my church is St. Mary Magdalene's. They have a pretty good school there.
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Old March 14th, 2012, 11:58 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by H80W View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by tristanrobin' timestamp='1331751702' post='389491

[quote name='H80W' timestamp='1331738335' post='389477']

[quote name='PaperAlchemist' timestamp='1331690626' post='389424']

[quote name='gary' timestamp='1331675901' post='389360']

[quote name='tristanrobin' timestamp='1331606604' post='389216']

I don't know anybody who makes their confession public.



Why would anybody be interested in another's confession. It's between that person and God. Hell, I'm not even a Catholic and I know that.




True.



However a good indication of the lesbian's repentance would be if she gave up her lesbian lifestyle.



If she deliberately flouts Christian doctrine and defies God's clear instructions does she still deserve to partake in Mass?


That really isn't up to you to decide since it is not your job to judge. Neither is it the priest's job to judge. Only God, as per your religion's teachings, can judge whether or not she is "deserving to partake in mass." And considering Jesus allowed EVERYONE to join his congregation, not just the saintly, but sinners, and prostitutes, etc, I would think that Jesus would see her fit to partake in mass. Jesus, unlike some of his followers, did not discriminate. She is as religious as her mother is, or is a lesbian woman not allowed to be religious without having to condemn herself for her orientation?



She doesn't have to give up her "lesbian lifestyle" to be worthy of partaking in mass. But that's your Christian love for you, isn't it gary?

[/quote]







True. When Mary Magdalene was known as a prostitute, she was being stoned by people. But Jesus forgave and loved her, just as much as he would love gays.

[/quote]



Magdalene was not a prostitute. She was an independently wealthy woman who didn't follow social norms. She was actually socially beneath a prostitute.

[/quote]



Thanks for the clarification, Tristan. I guess it all depends on who one listens to. She became a great woman and a saint. The RCC near my church is St. Mary Magdalene's. They have a pretty good school there.

[/quote]





Nice one Willie
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Old March 14th, 2012, 11:59 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaperAlchemist View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by gary' timestamp='1331675901' post='389360

[quote name='tristanrobin' timestamp='1331606604' post='389216']

I don't know anybody who makes their confession public.



Why would anybody be interested in another's confession. It's between that person and God. Hell, I'm not even a Catholic and I know that.




True.



However a good indication of the lesbian's repentance would be if she gave up her lesbian lifestyle.



If she deliberately flouts Christian doctrine and defies God's clear instructions does she still deserve to partake in Mass?


That really isn't up to you to decide since it is not your job to judge. Neither is it the priest's job to judge. Only God, as per your religion's teachings, can judge whether or not she is "deserving to partake in mass." And considering Jesus allowed EVERYONE to join his congregation, not just the saintly, but sinners, and prostitutes, etc, I would think that Jesus would see her fit to partake in mass. Jesus, unlike some of his followers, did not discriminate. She is as religious as her mother is, or is a lesbian woman not allowed to be religious without having to condemn herself for her orientation?



She doesn't have to give up her "lesbian lifestyle" to be worthy of partaking in mass. But that's your Christian love for you, isn't it gary?

[/quote]





She should be allowed to attend church but why should she be allowed Mass if she is unrepentantly flouting God's instructions?
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Old March 14th, 2012, 12:00 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by tristanrobin View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by gary' timestamp='1331675901' post='389360

[quote name='tristanrobin' timestamp='1331606604' post='389216']

I don't know anybody who makes their confession public.



Why would anybody be interested in another's confession. It's between that person and God. Hell, I'm not even a Catholic and I know that.




True.



However a good indication of the lesbian's repentance would be if she gave up her lesbian lifestyle.



If she deliberately flouts Christian doctrine and defies God's clear instructions does she still deserve to partake in Mass?


Did the priest ask her this question before denying her communion at the death mass of her mother?

[/quote]



No doubt the priest was familiar with her shenanigans (or personigans as you would say)
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Old March 14th, 2012, 04:26 PM   #20
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How could the priest possibly know this - unless, as I asked, he enquired?



If he is so virulently anti-gay, I doubt ( I don't know - as you don't - any of the particulars) that she would be a member.



So, the priest was doing something common and crude and offensive at this woman's mother's funeral mass based on what? - gossip?



It's good he's been put on time out.
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