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Old May 12th, 2015, 01:00 PM   #81
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Losing the Civil War proved them wrong. That's not the point. The point is, did they have a legal right to succeed. Many states made sighing the Constitution contingent upon the right to succeed.
So why do you think there aren't any states that have seceded from the Union since then?
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Old May 12th, 2015, 01:00 PM   #82
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I'm not going anywhere. I don't care, one way or the other if homosexuals marry or not. What I do care about is a Central government usurping the power of each individual sovereign state. I'm more than willing to live in a state that passes Gay marriage. But, IMO that issue should be left up to the citizens of each state.
How do you feel about the bible belt states cleaning up after their own tornadoes and disasters? Should the CENTRAL government have to get involved, or should states like Kansas who voted for Brownback who has bankrupted the state have to pay for their own clean up?
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Old May 12th, 2015, 01:22 PM   #83
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It really doesn't matter what contingencies 'they' put on signing.

That just means they thought they had the right to secede.

They were wrong.
There had to be a specific constitutional prohibition on secession for it to be illegal. Conversely, there did not have to be a specific constitutional affirmation of the right of secession for it to be legal. Why? Because the 10th Amendment to the United States Constitution states: The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.
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Old May 12th, 2015, 01:25 PM   #84
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There had to be a specific constitutional prohibition on secession for it to be illegal. Conversely, there did not have to be a specific constitutional affirmation of the right of secession for it to be legal. Why? Because the 10th Amendment to the United States Constitution states: The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.
Then I have to ask...why didn't the south attempt secession through the courts?

Surely the South had at least one good lawyer.
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Old May 12th, 2015, 01:28 PM   #85
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So why do you think there aren't any states that have seceded from the Union since then?
The Civil War in costs of human life was horrendous. The South, upon reentry to the Union was forced to exclude further rights of secession. Whether that could pass constitution muster is another matter.
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Old May 12th, 2015, 01:45 PM   #86
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Then I have to ask...why didn't the south attempt secession through the courts?

Surely the South had at least one good lawyer.
Good question. Wish I had the definitive answer. I shall look into that.
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Old May 12th, 2015, 01:48 PM   #87
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How do you feel about the bible belt states cleaning up after their own tornadoes and disasters? Should the CENTRAL government have to get involved, or should states like Kansas who voted for Brownback who has bankrupted the state have to pay for their own clean up?
Your misunderstanding the definition of Central government.
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Old May 12th, 2015, 01:53 PM   #88
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Nature is what created them in the same way it created you. Both are what they are. No one chooses who they are attracted to.
Nature is flawed...that's a given. Nature makes many mistakes hence, evolution.
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Old May 12th, 2015, 01:57 PM   #89
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Richard B. Gartner, PhD, Training and Supervising Analyst, Faculty and Founding Director of the Sexual Abuse Program at the William Alanson White Institute, Jan. 30, 2011


While this prospective evidence linking childhood sexual abuse to same-sex sexual partnerships in men suggests an increased likelihood, Findings from this investigation provide tentative support for a relationship between childhood sexual abuse and same sex sexual relationships, but this relationship appeared only for men. That is, men with histories of childhood sexual abuse were more likely than men in a control group to report same sex sexual partnerships... [T]his evidence of a link between court-substantiated cases of childhood sexual abuse and same-sex partnerships reported by adult men 30 years later is a notable finding that adds to the literature on this topic


is it 100% conclusive no, just as the "Gay gene is not conclusive either. the study shows there is a relationship.

Thus my conclusion is that both situations are reality Born gay and a result of life experiences.
Why no link?

Edit: And in fact I found a link that studied his works and concludes that he is of no opinion here so that suggests to me that you are cherry picking your quotes.

http://borngay.procon.org/view.sourc...ourceID=012278

Last edited by RNG; May 12th, 2015 at 02:07 PM.
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Old May 12th, 2015, 01:59 PM   #90
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I'm not going anywhere. I don't care, one way or the other if homosexuals marry or not. What I do care about is a Central government usurping the power of each individual sovereign state. I'm more than willing to live in a state that passes Gay marriage. But, IMO that issue should be left up to the citizens of each state.
I could get on w/ that , but with that it would eventually come down to $. Take the DUI laws. We didn't "have to" go down to .08 but if we didn't no more fed $ for roads exc. if the churches were treated like a normal business w/o being subsidized by the state then the state could have no say in anything w/in reason that they do. If being "legally married" didn't come w/ government granted amenities then I could care less. It all comes down to the state wanting their grubby little fingers in every pot. If there is a penny out there, uncle wants his share and he wants to control how he and his buddies spend it.
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