Political Forums  

Go Back   Defending The Truth Political Forum > Political Issues > Civil Rights > Gay and Lesbian Rights

Gay and Lesbian Rights Gay and Lesbian Political Rights Forum - For topics and discussions about LGBT


Thanks Tree494Thanks
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old August 30th, 2015, 09:17 PM   #61
Spud
 
foundit66's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: California
Posts: 5,934
Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by coke View Post
Of course we can treat that. Wait we do its called Post Traumatic Stress. Veterans have been and our being treated for it. That means certain activities you engaged in while in military service may have led to a mental illness. Is the suicide rate of former military personnel 4 out of 10? No its not? Ok next ostrich move.
You're missing the point. You're failing to appreciate the real analogy here.

You declare PTSD to be the disease. NOT the military service.

The analogy demonstrates declaring the entire group of military veterans / transgender to be mentally diseased because they have higher suicide rates.
If you were to declare a disease for the sub-group of transgenders that commit suicide, that would be comparable. The sub-group of veterans that have PTSD is reasonable.
That sub-group demonstrates mental illness problems which justify PTSD being described as a mental illness.
Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder-Symptoms


Quote:
Originally Posted by coke View Post
I don't know. Do 4 out of every 10 dentists kill themselves? Ostrich still aint gonna fly
So what's your cutoff statistics?
Does 4 out of 10 => mental illness, but 3 out of 10 does not?

You're just looking for excuses to throw the label at the entire group.
The real problem here is that you're trying to stereo-type the group. A larger percentage of the group does something, therefore you declare the entire group as guilty of something.



And the really amusing thing here...
In the big picture of things, you refusing to comprehend the big picture ain't gonna change the big picture. The medical experts are going to reject your perspective because of reasons you refuse to understand.
Thanks from hot dragon and catus felis
foundit66 is offline  
Old August 30th, 2015, 09:48 PM   #62
Senior Member
 
hot dragon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: australia
Posts: 9,417
Quote:
Originally Posted by coke View Post
Yeah I did. It was nice and all. It was a wonderful ostrich approach.
my approach is based on a good understanding of genetics, embryology, fMRI scanning, and decades of empathetic engagement with transgendered people. my approach is how this issue is dealt with in civilised countries and increasingly how it is approached in developing countries. hell, even iran shares this approach to the transgendered.
Quote:
10 transgender humans in a line. Pick 4. Those 4 are dead due to suicide. That is a reality. Not a theory. When does 40% suicide rate become normal? Or when did it become normal?
not only do you not read anything i have posted, you dont even read your own sources. the article you posted, with the 40% suicide figure, was for suicide attempts, not successful suicides. 10 transgender people in a row. 4 of them have made a suicide attempt. probably pre surgery, very likely before telling anyone what kind of hell they were living. successfully ended their own life? completed suicide? that figure is 1 in thousands.
Quote:
When did suicide not become associated with a mental illness?
it has always been associated with mental illness. but not caused by mental illness. suicide is more common in people with a psychiatric illness, but suicide happens in people with no history of and no indication of any mental illness at all.
Thanks from foundit66
hot dragon is offline  
Old August 30th, 2015, 09:56 PM   #63
Senior Member
 
hot dragon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: australia
Posts: 9,417
Quote:
Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post
The medical experts are going to reject your perspective because of reasons you refuse to understand.
yep. they have, all over the world.

the reasons arent that complicated.
hot dragon is offline  
Old August 31st, 2015, 07:49 AM   #64
Senior Member
 
Hollywood's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Memphis, Tn.
Posts: 20,329
Quote:
Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post
You're missing the point. You're failing to appreciate the real analogy here.

You declare PTSD to be the disease. NOT the military service.

The analogy demonstrates declaring the entire group of military veterans / transgender to be mentally diseased because they have higher suicide rates.
If you were to declare a disease for the sub-group of transgenders that commit suicide, that would be comparable. The sub-group of veterans that have PTSD is reasonable.
That sub-group demonstrates mental illness problems which justify PTSD being described as a mental illness.
Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder-Symptoms



So what's your cutoff statistics?
Does 4 out of 10 => mental illness, but 3 out of 10 does not?

You're just looking for excuses to throw the label at the entire group.
The real problem here is that you're trying to stereo-type the group. A larger percentage of the group does something, therefore you declare the entire group as guilty of something.



And the really amusing thing here...
In the big picture of things, you refusing to comprehend the big picture ain't gonna change the big picture. The medical experts are going to reject your perspective because of reasons you refuse to understand.
The default defense of the RW, pretending to have the reading comprehension skills of a 3rd grader.
Hollywood is offline  
Old August 31st, 2015, 07:53 AM   #65
Senior Member
 
roastpork's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Chicago
Posts: 8,502
In answer to the title of this thread, most people, including me, don't care.
roastpork is offline  
Old August 31st, 2015, 09:16 AM   #66
Senior Member
 
Asimov's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 1,881
I understand the discussion here. But I'm a little confused by the word "treat." In my naivety I keep running afoul of the same question: Why do these people have to be "treated" at all? Why can't they just be left alone?
Thanks from catus felis
Asimov is offline  
Old August 31st, 2015, 09:19 AM   #67
Beach Goddess
 
catus felis's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: arkansas
Posts: 4,576
Quote:
Originally Posted by Asimov View Post
I understand the discussion here. But I'm a little confused by the word "treat." In my naivety I keep running afoul of the same question: Why do these people have to be "treated" at all? Why can't they just be left alone?
Because some people prefer to project their sexual problems onto others rather than seeking treatment.
Thanks from Asimov
catus felis is offline  
Old August 31st, 2015, 05:13 PM   #68
Senior Member
 
hot dragon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: australia
Posts: 9,417
Quote:
Originally Posted by Asimov View Post
I understand the discussion here. But I'm a little confused by the word "treat." In my naivety I keep running afoul of the same question: Why do these people have to be "treated" at all? Why can't they just be left alone?
if you follow my argument, it makes sense. the treatment refers to correcting a congenital abnormality, that being that while their brain is a female brain, their body failed to develop into a female body and erroneously became a male body (or vice versa). treatment is to correct that congenital anomaly.

in terms of the person themselves, they are not 'sick people'. they are human beings and should be regarded as no less than that and no more than that.
hot dragon is offline  
Old August 31st, 2015, 05:15 PM   #69
Senior Member
 
hot dragon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: australia
Posts: 9,417
Quote:
Originally Posted by roastpork View Post
In answer to the title of this thread, most people, including me, don't care.
i hope you dont care in the sense that when you come across a transgendered person in the course of your life, you treat them just like you would any other person.
hot dragon is offline  
Old August 31st, 2015, 05:37 PM   #70
Banned
 
coke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: nunya
Posts: 12,580
Quote:
Originally Posted by hot dragon View Post
my approach is based on a good understanding of genetics, embryology, fMRI scanning, and decades of empathetic engagement with transgendered people. my approach is how this issue is dealt with in civilised countries and increasingly how it is approached in developing countries. hell, even iran shares this approach to the transgendered.

not only do you not read anything i have posted, you dont even read your own sources. the article you posted, with the 40% suicide figure, was for suicide attempts, not successful suicides. 10 transgender people in a row. 4 of them have made a suicide attempt. probably pre surgery, very likely before telling anyone what kind of hell they were living. successfully ended their own life? completed suicide? that figure is 1 in thousands.

it has always been associated with mental illness. but not caused by mental illness. suicide is more common in people with a psychiatric illness, but suicide happens in people with no history of and no indication of any mental illness at all.
You are right that is attempted not successful. Compared to 4% for the rest of the population at attempts. I get it now. We probably should just say fuck it. Good call. I see no problem. Lets just let live and let be.
coke is offline  
Reply

  Defending The Truth Political Forum > Political Issues > Civil Rights > Gay and Lesbian Rights

Tags
mentally, transgenders, treat



Search tags for this page
Click on a term to search for related topics.
Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
If Transgenders are OK, are Transracials? RNG Current Events 12 June 13th, 2015 07:21 AM
Feinstein say all veterans are mentally ill. pana8 Current Events 17 January 30th, 2014 07:56 AM
Is Nancy Pelosi Mentally Ill? Tony Perkins Politicians 25 January 23rd, 2012 05:18 PM
The Rancher And The Mentally Challenged Guy Radicalcentrist Conservatism 2 November 16th, 2011 12:53 PM
Dadt No More, Now Transgenders Say No More! gulfwar_veteran Current Events 282 October 12th, 2011 10:45 AM


Facebook Twitter RSS Feed



Copyright © 2005-2013 Defending The Truth. All rights reserved.