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Old August 30th, 2015, 06:31 PM   #51
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Are you nuts? How can such stats be supplied when such a thing did not even exist 10, 15, 20, 25, 30, 35 or 40 years ago?
That is my point: there is no data.
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Old August 30th, 2015, 06:49 PM   #52
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That is my point: there is no data.
There is data, there's 10 years worth from Massachusetts, and from other enlightened parts of the world.
You don't like it, but it is data.
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Old August 30th, 2015, 06:56 PM   #53
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There is data, there's 10 years worth from Massachusetts, and from other enlightened parts of the world.
You don't like it, but it is data.
Post up the divorce rates of same-sex marriages for the past 10,15,20,25,30,35,40 years from all fifty states so I can examine it.

That is usable data. Your methodology is has zero value because you have no data.
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Old August 30th, 2015, 07:17 PM   #54
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That is my point: there is no data.
Will you, or anyone else here, explain to me why it would be of the slightest importance which group had the highest divorce rate, regardless of the period of time covered by such stats?
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Old August 30th, 2015, 07:21 PM   #55
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Will you, or anyone else here, explain to me why it would be of the slightest importance which group had the highest divorce rate, regardless of the period of time covered by such stats?
It has zero importance and I have not stated that it does. I have only addressed that there is no data, especially as being presented.
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Old August 30th, 2015, 08:00 PM   #56
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It has zero importance and I have not stated that it does. I have only addressed that there is no data, especially as being presented.
if it has zero importance why on earth are we talking about it?
It's not important, so what does it matter whether or not there is any data on it?
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Old August 30th, 2015, 08:04 PM   #57
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if it has zero importance why on earth are we talking about it?
It's not important, so what does it matter whether or not there is any data on it?
Ask Goober; he made the false statement.
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Old August 30th, 2015, 08:13 PM   #58
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On Two Views of Marriage

I feel like my earlier argument got extremely confused when I tried to bring the Rentboy.com incident into it. Instead of trying to debate that I just want to restate it. There's an excellent book here that I got some of these ideas from: http://www.amazon.com/What-Is-Marria.../dp/1594036225

There's two views of marriage out there for quite awhile now, one says that marriage is about more than emotional love, the other says that it is only about emotional love.

Gay marriage is well into the sphere of "emotional marriage" which coincides with policies like easy access to divorce and the slippery slope towards things like plural marriage and temporary marriage licenses. This is because homosexual people cannot have children with each other (bringing in children from other people is not the same) which means that their relationship is purely emotional in nature. This coincides with things like easy access to divorce or maybe even temporary marriage because if the marriage is only about emotion, when the emotion ends (or far more likely, merely becomes less than other emotions) so ends the marriage.

In contrast to that you have traditional marriage which can be extra-emotional in nature. Traditional marriage certainly does not reject the idea of emotional love but it includes other things as well. These other things mostly relate to the goal of raising happy and effective children, people who indisputably contribute more to their community than children raised in other arrangements. This conception of marriage relates to things like traditional marriage and difficult requirements for divorce.

It is also possible to go to the "dark side" of traditional marriage and treat the institution like a factory but it is not necessary.

I believe that if we don't use traditional marriage as a reference point, the only standard for if a relationship gets state recognition is whether enough people can be convinced that the emotional love felt by the parties is real. This does (in theory) open the door to things like plural marriages, temporary marriages and anything else that people can be convinced is "real love" when we define real love as being nothing but an emotion.

There are two problems with that kind of policy. The first problem is that children from traditional marriages contribute more to society and perform better in every measurable area. The second problem is that if we ever reach a point where everyone can obtain the "marriage" subsidy, it means that no one is obtaining it and it would probably be abolished entirely. This would probably mean we would have gone full circle back to the social values and methodologies that existed in unhappier ancient times.

To summarize, it's crude to say that traditional marriage isn't about love but accurate to say that it is about more than just emotional love.



Reasons for why emotional marriage has been gaining ground probably relate to lower fertility rates, with even heterosexual couples increasingly having few or no children, and the spread of public schooling and the “restauranteur” lifestyle; even people who do have children sometimes don’t do much to raise them. These things can clearly be bad for families and children, government should encourage more connection between families, not less. This should include refusing to extend state recognition to relationships that are primarily emotional in nature.
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Old August 31st, 2015, 03:16 AM   #59
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Ask Goober; he made the false statement.
Jimmy has painted himself into another corner...
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Old August 31st, 2015, 07:30 AM   #60
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Jimmy has painted himself into another corner...
Color me shocked and surprised.
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