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Old August 3rd, 2008, 08:20 PM   #1
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Gays and Crime

I abhor America's trend of creating special interest groups, especially when its a matter of "let's keep our members in line". Its the "all blacks must toe the black line" mentality. This post violates my philosophy, but I think what I have to say is true.



Almost every group that expresses grievances against society ignores their own complicity in creating society's actions against that group. Blacks complain, often with justification, that the police roust them unfairly yet avoid discussing the disproportionately high crime rate among blacks (and the fact that blacks are more often than not the victims). Gays, however, often (though far less often now) were the focus of these odd "let's roust the gays" police actions. I never understood these actions, since most of the time the gay areas are relatively low crime areas. If there was any real crime in gay areas, it was usually committed by someone who was not gay.



Years ago, we had a Captain who would want to do a vice sweep of the gay bars once a year. I used to argue with him. One time, he was pissed because a gay bar had glory holes. So? Hetero porn theatres had straight guys whacking off to porn videos. Upscale gay bars didn't have glory holes, and the bar that did had patrons that knew they were there and were consensually using them if that was their inclination. This wasn't some Republican senator stomping his feet at a public restroom at an airport.



Vice is the worst area of police work. I'd never do it. Its senseless. I saw a deal where they conducted a sting in our state concerning internet prostitution. They entrapped (though the courts will hold different) internet prostitution rings to drive into our state to get busted. These are hookers who (i read the reports) had never been in our state before.









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Old August 3rd, 2008, 08:43 PM   #2
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Since I've never investigated a murder or rape yet (and I've done a lot of these) that didn't involve hate,l I'm not a fan of hate crimes. But I am way more sympathetic to gays who support gay hate crime legislation for two reasons. First, it is a very one-sided issue - I've never seen gays murder or assault someone because he was straight. Its happened, obviously, but its very rare.



With race hate crimes, almost all the prosecutions involve whites attacking blacks for racial reasons, but almost never the reverse. I see blacks attacking whites for racial motivations fairly frequently. I've seen cases where blacks attacked Korean grocery store owners in clearly racially motivated crimes, but the feds didn't intervene. I read about a Sonic drive in in Grambling Louisiana was burned down because it was white owned in an all black town. The feds didn't even investigate.



The other reason is that most gay advocacy groups focus on the issue and are not the hypocrites that most advocacy groups are. I know there's some type of gay rift with the Salvation Army because of its religious views, but I view gay advocacy groups as being similar to the Salvation Army in one respect - what you see is what you get.



Most advocacy groups eventually succumb to their own hypocrisy and bullshit. People For the American Way's support of the "Let's Jail Karl Rove" petition is a good example. Petitioning to put someone in jail, instead of going through the proper due process channels, is about as unamerican as anything can get. NOW ignored Clinton's actions with Lewinsky (which weren't sexual harassment as defined legally, but which are no different than other actions which NOW has blasted) because Clinton was on their side on most political issues. Most black advocacy groups attack any black that doesn't agree with 100% of their agenda.



I don't see that with the gay advocacy groups. They advocate gay marriage, seem to tolerate gays who don't support gay marriage, and don't try to rip apart marriage as an institution to make their point.



The only real bad act (and I see a lot of it on this board) is the name-calling directed towards anyone who opposes gay marriage, especially on religious grounds. The name-calling goes both ways, which is not a defense to it, but it does explain it.



Our society needs to toughen up. We are way too thin skinned. In my profession, I get called a nigger quite often (usually by someone, black or white, as I'm loading them into the back of the car in handcuffs LOL). It doesn't bother me. Most of them probably aren't even racist - they just know its a term likely to bother someone black.



I've been treated rudely at stores and, at times, its clearly been because I was black. I've seen black store clerks treat whites rudely while being friendly to blacks. It happens, and the solution is to get over it. Everybody wants to sue. We need to learn that there are things in life that happen that are unpleasant, mean spirited, and that we have to learn to deal with them.



Its all about perspective. The NAACP spent tons of time and money because S.C.'s confederate flag issue. How about spending that time and money working to improve crappy schools in so many black neighborhoods, or reducing black on black crime?









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Old August 4th, 2008, 03:58 AM   #3
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I don't know what happened to you - but between your first posts on this forum and these posts, you seem to have done a 180.



These are excellent posts and thoughts - big ole thumbs up to you!



edited to add: but don't kid yourself - there are vicious gays out there too, who call other gays terrible names if they don't toe the party line!
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Old August 4th, 2008, 07:27 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tristanrobin
I don't know what happened to you - but between your first posts on this forum and these posts, you seem to have done a 180.



These are excellent posts and thoughts - big ole thumbs up to you!



edited to add: but don't kid yourself - there are vicious gays out there too, who call other gays terrible names if they don't toe the party line!


I've seen one or two online like you mentioned, prior to joining the original Yahoo gang about four or five years ago. There was one who was just, well, too mean. He wasn't to be messed with, I guess.
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Old August 4th, 2008, 07:37 AM   #5
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Ty, I think once in my life have I encountered a colored person who was not very nice to me. I was 20 years old, and I was inside a Memphis Greyhound bus station. I was on my way to see my godparents in Alabama, whom I had not seen for many years.



In 1974, I rode Greyhound from Abilene, TX to Birmingham, AL. The bus went through cities like Ft. Worth and Dallas, on I-20. Now I wonder why Greyhound did not travel on I-20 all the way to Birmingham? Instead, it went through Texarkana, Pine Bluff, bypassed Little Rock, and pulled into Memphis the next morning.



I was in a serving line getting breakfast when I asked a colored man about one of the breakfast items. Whatever his answer was, he finished by commanding, "NOW MOVE ON DOWN".



I mean, what did I do to deserve that kind of attention? Anyway, I moved on down, and purchased my food before sitting down to eat. If anybody else want to talk to me that way, I just walk away and just come near that person again. That was the way of life in school for me. Just a brutal early life for me as a hearing impaired person.



But in all my years living in San Diego, I have always treated every person of ethnic origin, and gays/lesbians, with respect, and I made friends with them. There is a very low racial tensions here in San Diego. Other places can be the opposite.
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Old August 4th, 2008, 08:11 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tristanrobin
I don't know what happened to you - but between your first posts on this forum and these posts, you seem to have done a 180.



These are excellent posts and thoughts - big ole thumbs up to you!



edited to add: but don't kid yourself - there are vicious gays out there too, who call other gays terrible names if they don't toe the party line!


I think my first posts were misinterpreted. I want school students to focus on education, not activism. The type of activism wasn't relevant. If students were getting good educations, then I would have no problem with the activism. I'm not against gay activism or any other kind, for that matter.
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Old August 4th, 2008, 08:18 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tristanrobin
I don't know what happened to you - but between your first posts on this forum and these posts, you seem to have done a 180.



These are excellent posts and thoughts - big ole thumbs up to you!



edited to add: but don't kid yourself - there are vicious gays out there too, who call other gays terrible names if they don't toe the party line!


Is there still the big outing controversy? I always thought it was an interesting debate - privacy vs. pointing out hypocrisy.

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Old August 4th, 2008, 08:21 AM   #8
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It will always be a controversy.



I'm on both sides of the fence. A person's privacy is a person's privacy, and should be respected.



UNLESS.



It's somebody who is doing HARM to the gay community and remains closeted. I'm thinking in particular of gay closeted politicians who pander to the bigots for votes by voting for or writing anti-gay legislation. Those hypocrites should be outed - not for being gay per se, but for being hypocritical assholes.



Perhaps a fine line - but one that I"m comfortable with.
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Old August 4th, 2008, 12:11 PM   #9
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Your quote, "Conservatism: Self-centered mean-spiritedness fueled by ignorance and misguided self-importance" defines neo-conservatives quite well. A true conservative is a lot closer to a libertarian, and libertarians would not fit your definition at all.



In fact, your definition also comes close to fitting the new breed of liberals. No one is more arrogant than a neo-liberal. Al Gore's "I'm right, and I won't debate it" attitude is pretty much on point. He certainly is self-important, and what's funny is he and his wife are religious fundamentalists and were the big censors of rock music.



If only the media would call out all of these politicians. They are all way too arrogant and power mad.



We need a JFK type right now.

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Old August 4th, 2008, 12:18 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tristanrobin
It will always be a controversy.



I'm on both sides of the fence. A person's privacy is a person's privacy, and should be respected.



UNLESS.



It's somebody who is doing HARM to the gay community and remains closeted. I'm thinking in particular of gay closeted politicians who pander to the bigots for votes by voting for or writing anti-gay legislation. Those hypocrites should be outed - not for being gay per se, but for being hypocritical assholes.



Perhaps a fine line - but one that I"m comfortable with.
Larry Craig is an interesting study. Preaching about "family values" and then he gets busted and outed at the same time. I guess this is modern politics - Gore lectures me on using fuel while his family burns carbon up like mad and Craig lectures me on his version of morality that he doesn't adhere to himself.



Maybe what our country needs is less lecturing and pontificating.
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