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Old June 6th, 2012, 08:09 AM   #1
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There are some people who say that there is no reason to be concerned when it comes to our civil liberties because if we are not doing anything wrong, we have nothing to be afraid of. The trouble with this idea is that although today we may have weapons in our gun safes, and we may have the ability to travel as we chose, search what we like or do what we please, is this always going to be the case? This may sound a little paranoid but consider this. Letís say you go out and find gun safes for sale and purchase them for your firearms. Do you want someone being able to tell you whether or not this is alright based upon criteria that they decide?



This may sound silly, but there are serious things happening within the government that are beginning to limit basic American rights for everyone in the nation and it is all happening in the name of security. For example, just a couple of years ago there was a reporter working for the Mogollon Connection in Arizona who sent out emails in an attempt to contact someone who was known to be affiliated with a terrorist organization for an interview. This person also had a fairly robust internet presence and his email address was relatively simple to locate. Although no contact was ever made, an attempt was and soon after the anti terrorism task force contacted the reporter and questioned him as a terror suspect. With the impending prospect of the Patriot act and all of the legal ramifications that existed as a foreboding warning the reporter backed off and let the story go. The man that the reporter was attempting to contact was assassinated by U.S. drones in Yemin, even though he was originally born in New Mexico.



Whether or not the man was evil or a part of an evil organization is a different argument altogether and worthy of its own conversation. However, the idea that the government can just monitor U.S. communications, even when it is the press, and cause an interruption to both the fourth estate and the 1[sup]st[/sup], 4[sup]th[/sup], and 10[sup]th[/sup] amendments is an outrage and just another example of how we are allowing officials to have no accountability.



Whether it is the ability to have gun safes or simply email someone in another country we have to fight now before it becomes a problem. People donít realize how difficult it is to take power away once the government has it. The best way to solve the problem is to stop it before it becomes one. Plus you have to remember that the ones who are deciding where the goal line is are the ones with the ball. Donít let the government tell you where their line for corruption is, when they are the ones who are being corrupt. Make your voice known and donít give up your liberty for security. With no way to determine victory conditions for a war on terror this can go on forever and be used as the ultimate tool to take away your rights.
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Old June 7th, 2012, 08:58 AM   #2
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It's so true.



I cannot think of one power taken by the government, usually rationalized because it heightens our "security," that the government ever returned. If I'm mistaken here, I'd like someone to point out an example.



FISA limitations were all but rendered moot by the PATRIOT Act, and the Military Commissions Act, passed under Bush, and Obama has not done a thing about their infringements on the 1st, 4th, 10th Amendments ... nada.



And the majority of US citizens wouldn't even be about to understand the paragraph above, and wouldn't be motivated to understand it....
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Old June 7th, 2012, 09:15 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by imaginethat View Post
It's so true.



I cannot think of one power taken by the government, usually rationalized because it heightens our "security," that the government ever returned. If I'm mistaken here, I'd like someone to point out an example.




How about internment of Japanese-Americans during WW2?



BTW almost every other western democracy enjoys freedom and liberty without the need to cultivate a gun culture, a uniquely American fetish "usually rationalized because it heightens our "security"
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Old January 9th, 2013, 11:48 AM   #4
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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="DTT" data-cid="406554" data-time="1338998954">seek-truth.jpg


There are some people who say that there is no reason to be concerned when it comes to our civil liberties because if we are not doing anything wrong, we have nothing to be afraid of. The trouble with this idea is that although today we may have weapons in our gun safes, and we may have the ability to travel as we chose, search what we like or do what we please, is this always going to be the case? This may sound a little paranoid but consider this. Letís say you go out and find gun safes for sale and purchase them for your firearms. Do you want someone being able to tell you whether or not this is alright based upon criteria that they decide?


This may sound silly, but there are serious things happening within the government that are beginning to limit basic American rights for everyone in the nation and it is all happening in the name of security. For example, just a couple of years ago there was a reporter working for the Mogollon Connection in Arizona who sent out emails in an attempt to contact someone who was known to be affiliated with a terrorist organization for an interview. This person also had a fairly robust internet presence and his email address was relatively simple to locate. Although no contact was ever made, an attempt was and soon after the anti terrorism task force contacted the reporter and questioned him as a terror suspect. With the impending prospect of the Patriot act and all of the legal ramifications that existed as a foreboding warning the reporter backed off and let the story go. The man that the reporter was attempting to contact was assassinated by U.S. drones in Yemin, even though he was originally born in New Mexico.


Whether or not the man was evil or a part of an evil organization is a different argument altogether and worthy of its own conversation. However, the idea that the government can just monitor U.S. communications, even when it is the press, and cause an interruption to both the fourth estate and the 1<sup>st</sup>, 4<sup>th</sup>, and 10<sup>th</sup> amendments is an outrage and just another example of how we are allowing officials to have no accountability.


Whether it is the ability to have gun safes or simply email someone in another country we have to fight now before it becomes a problem. People donít realize how difficult it is to take power away once the government has it. The best way to solve the problem is to stop it before it becomes one. Plus you have to remember that the ones who are deciding where the goal line is are the ones with the ball. Donít let the government tell you where their line for corruption is, when they are the ones who are being corrupt. Make your voice known and donít give up your liberty for security. With no way to determine victory conditions for a war on terror this can go on forever and be used as the ultimate tool to take away your rights.</blockquote>


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Old April 1st, 2013, 04:53 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by DTT View Post
[attachment=133:seek-truth.jpg]



There are some people who say that there is no reason to be concerned when it comes to our civil liberties because if we are not doing anything wrong, we have nothing to be afraid of. The trouble with this idea is that although today we may have weapons in our gun safes, and we may have the ability to travel as we chose, search what we like or do what we please, is this always going to be the case? This may sound a little paranoid but consider this. Letís say you go out and find gun safes for sale and purchase them for your firearms. Do you want someone being able to tell you whether or not this is alright based upon criteria that they decide?



This may sound silly, but there are serious things happening within the government that are beginning to limit basic American rights for everyone in the nation and it is all happening in the name of security. For example, just a couple of years ago there was a reporter working for the Mogollon Connection in Arizona who sent out emails in an attempt to contact someone who was known to be affiliated with a terrorist organization for an interview. This person also had a fairly robust internet presence and his email address was relatively simple to locate. Although no contact was ever made, an attempt was and soon after the anti terrorism task force contacted the reporter and questioned him as a terror suspect. With the impending prospect of the Patriot act and all of the legal ramifications that existed as a foreboding warning the reporter backed off and let the story go. The man that the reporter was attempting to contact was assassinated by U.S. drones in Yemin, even though he was originally born in New Mexico.



Whether or not the man was evil or a part of an evil organization is a different argument altogether and worthy of its own conversation. However, the idea that the government can just monitor U.S. communications, even when it is the press, and cause an interruption to both the fourth estate and the 1[sup]st[/sup], 4[sup]th[/sup], and 10[sup]th[/sup] amendments is an outrage and just another example of how we are allowing officials to have no accountability.



Whether it is the ability to have gun safes or simply email someone in another country we have to fight now before it becomes a problem. People donít realize how difficult it is to take power away once the government has it. The best way to solve the problem is to stop it before it becomes one. Plus you have to remember that the ones who are deciding where the goal line is are the ones with the ball. Donít let the government tell you where their line for corruption is, when they are the ones who are being corrupt. Make your voice known and donít give up your liberty for security. With no way to determine victory conditions for a war on terror this can go on forever and be used as the ultimate tool to take away your rights.
I have two questions for you; (1) do you think that the events of 9-11 were an isolated event and that such an event will never happen again? and; (2) was this media person's rights infringed when the anti-terrorism task force contacted him and questioned him?
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Old April 1st, 2013, 04:55 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by imaginethat View Post
It's so true.



I cannot think of one power taken by the government, usually rationalized because it heightens our "security," that the government ever returned. If I'm mistaken here, I'd like someone to point out an example.



FISA limitations were all but rendered moot by the PATRIOT Act, and the Military Commissions Act, passed under Bush, and Obama has not done a thing about their infringements on the 1st, 4th, 10th Amendments ... nada.



And the majority of US citizens wouldn't even be about to understand the paragraph above, and wouldn't be motivated to understand it....
...and yet, not one documented instance of any US citizens liberties having been denied except of course the single Obama assasination of the citizen in Yemen which might have been part of the story above.

I have the same two questions for you; (1) do you think that the events of 9-11 were an isolated event and that such an event will never happen again? and; (2) was this media person's rights infringed when the anti-terrorism task force contacted him and questioned him?
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Old April 1st, 2013, 05:01 PM   #7
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How about internment of Japanese-Americans during WW2?



BTW almost every other western democracy enjoys freedom and liberty without the need to cultivate a gun culture, a uniquely American fetish "usually rationalized because it heightens our "security"
What other western democracies have a Constitution and a Second Ammendment?

Suggesting that the guns are uniquely an American fetish requires the willful denial of the terrorist Baader- Meinhof Group in the 70's, or the mass killings and bombings of Anders Behring Breivik.

Here's a few more for you to digest if you think this is uniquely and American issue and about guns:

- September 24, 1995 - France

Sixteen people are killed and many injured in the southern French towns of Sollies-le-Pont and Cuers when a 17-year-old boy goes on a shooting rampage. He kills himself a few hours after the carnage.

- March 13, 1996 - Scotland

A deranged gun collector kills 16 children aged four to six and their teacher at a school in Dunblane, Scotland. He then kills himself.


- September 27, 2001 - Switzerland

A man bursts into the local assembly in the central Swiss town of Zug and opens fire, killing 14 and then turning the gun on himself.


- March 27, 2002 - France

Eight people are killed and 19 injured when a man opens fire on members of the municipal council of Nanterre, a region of Paris. He kills himself the next day while in police custody.


- April 26, 2002 - Germany

Sixteen people, including 12 teachers and two students, are gunned down at a school in Erfurt in eastern Germany by a 19-year-old former student, apparently in revenge for having been expelled, who then killed himself.


- October 15, 2002 - Italy

A recently divorced man shoots his ex-wife and her family and neighbours in the northern Italian city of Turin, leaving eight dead, before killing himself.


- November 7, 2007 - Finland

An 18-year-old man goes on a shooting rampage in a school in the southern Finnish town of Tuusula, killing eight people before shooting himself.


- September 23, 2008 - Finland

Eleven people, including the gunman, die in a massacre at a training school at Kauhajoki, Finland.


- March 11, 2009 - Germany

Nine pupils, three teachers and three passers-by are killed in a school shooting at Winnenden in southern Germany by a former pupil who then kills himself.


- June 2, 2010 - England

Twelve people are killed when a 52-year-old taxi driver goes on a shooting spree in the English region of Cumbria, before killing himself.


Now I am pretty certain that all the above nations have extremely severe gun laws and penalties don't they?
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Old April 1st, 2013, 08:34 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by imaginethat View Post
It's so true.



I cannot think of one power taken by the government, usually rationalized because it heightens our "security," that the government ever returned. If I'm mistaken here, I'd like someone to point out an example.



FISA limitations were all but rendered moot by the PATRIOT Act, and the Military Commissions Act, passed under Bush, and Obama has not done a thing about their infringements on the 1st, 4th, 10th Amendments ... nada.



And the majority of US citizens wouldn't even be about to understand the paragraph above, and wouldn't be motivated to understand it....
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Old April 1st, 2013, 08:44 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by imaginethat View Post
It's so true.



I cannot think of one power taken by the government, usually rationalized because it heightens our "security," that the government ever returned. If I'm mistaken here, I'd like someone to point out an example.



FISA limitations were all but rendered moot by the PATRIOT Act, and the Military Commissions Act, passed under Bush, and Obama has not done a thing about their infringements on the 1st, 4th, 10th Amendments ... nada.



And the majority of US citizens wouldn't even be about to understand the paragraph above, and wouldn't be motivated to understand it....
Acctually The patriot act did not end FISA limitations. with the exeption of international calls.

It was the FISA Bill that ended the limitation on domestic calls.
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Old December 22nd, 2016, 10:31 AM   #10
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Interesting points by all. I suppose I never thought much about the internet watching thing mostly because I figured out a long time ago that anyone who understands this better than I do (which is A LOT of folks) can get into my stuff if they want to bad enough. I can't imagine why anyone would want to, though. I haven't any money to speak of and my credit went the way of our economy during the recession, in the toilet. If they want to know about my friends' kids or health or the awesome recipe I found for sea grape jelly, I'd be surprised. But it is creepy to think everything you do is being "monitored".

I'm very glad I grew up before all this took place. Today people, especially young people, photograph everything they do, what they eat, where they go and what they wear. It just seems odd to me. I don't want everyone "up in my business" all the time. And honestly, it puzzles me that people think sharing every little thing is important. How in the world "government" sorts through it all is beyond me, but I guess they believe it's important.

It's not just government, though. I ordered work jeans online for my man and now every time I look at Facebook ads for jeans and work pants show up. Yes sir, it is creepy.

Last edited by anotherdayinparadise; December 22nd, 2016 at 10:34 AM.
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