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foundit66 January 14th, 2016 11:02 PM

Driver Shouted ‘Go Back To Islam!’ As He Shot Muslim In ‘Stand Your Ground’ Killing
 
Quote:

AUSTIN, Texas — A killing of a Muslim man in what some are calling road rage, and others a hate crime, is bringing renewed attention to the deadly consequences of Texas’ “Stand Your Ground” self-defense law.

The shooting occurred in Houston on June 26, 2015 when Ziad Abu Naim and his wife, Lisa Aimone, were driving to visit with one of Naim’s business clients on the way to his mosque for Friday prayers. After turning left at a four-way intersection just a block from their home, Abu Naim’s vehicle almost struck another vehicle, driven by Robert Craig Klimek, another Houston resident.

Moments later, as described by Leah Caldwell in a Jan. 4 report for Texas Observer, Abu Naim was on the ground, bleeding from a gunshot wound:

“[Klimek] made a right turn and pulled alongside Abu Naim’s Porsche SUV. Both men rolled down their windows. Aimone sat forward in her seat to catch a glimpse of the man in the other car, and that’s when she heard it: “Go back to Islam!” Abu Naim opened the door and stepped out of the car. Aimone kept her eyes on his back. Within a few seconds, she heard a single gunshot.”

Abu Naim never recovered consciousness and died in a Houston hospital three days later. Klimek told police he shot Abu Naim after Abu Naim reached inside his vehicle and punched him multiple times, while Aimone insists there was no time for any blows before the fatal gunshot, and that the shouted words point to a possible hate crime.

In September, a grand jury declined to indict Klimek on any crimes. His defense focused on Texas’ Stand Your Ground law. While 23 states have passed some form of Stand Your Ground self-defense law, Texas is considered one of the most most expansive self-defense laws in the country, Caldwell explained:

“In 2007, the Texas Legislature passed legislation explicitly stating that civilians have no ‘duty to retreat’ from their vehicles before using deadly force in self-defense. Instead of driving off, you can now legally shoot to kill in certain circumstances. Critics have said the law is so broad that it gives the trigger-happy carte blanche to shoot first and ask questions later.”

A 2012 study by researchers at Texas A&M University of states with Stand Your Ground laws similar to Florida’s found 600 homicides that could be attributed to the law between 2000 and 2010.

There’s also real concern that racial bias is at play in the enforcement of the law, and the state’s selection of whom to prosecute for these kind of road rage incidents. By including vehicles in the Texas version of the law, Professor Tamara Rice Lave of the University of Miami School of Law told Caldwell that it seems to encourage violence against minorities even when other options are available:

“‘If somebody’s in the car, the ignition is on, the foot is on the gas pedal, then they can easily drive away,’ she said. ‘If it was a white, upper-class mother getting out of her car and approaching a car, [and she were shot], do I think there would be an indictment? Yes, there would be. It makes a difference who the victim is.’”

Prosecutors also ignored Aimone’s demands that the killing be investigated as a hate crime. Although Caldwell’s investigation found years of anti-Muslim rhetoric posted online by Klimek, Aimone said officials were “dismissive” of the possibility, and added, “It was almost like too much work for them to find something to see if it was a hate crime.”
Driver Shouted ?Go Back To Islam!? As He Shot Muslim In ?Stand Your Ground? Killing

Some aspects of "stand your ground" I agree with.
Some aspects of the law go ridiculously too far, allowing for situations like the above to be "legal". :angry:

TNVolunteer73 January 14th, 2016 11:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by foundit66 (Post 898841)
Driver Shouted ?Go Back To Islam!? As He Shot Muslim In ?Stand Your Ground? Killing

Some aspects of "stand your ground" I agree with.
Some aspects of the law go ridiculously too far, allowing for situations like the above to be "legal". :angry:

I don't think it was legal... ... hello

foundit66 January 15th, 2016 07:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TNVolunteer73 (Post 898842)
I don't think it was legal... ... hello

From the article:
In September, a grand jury declined to indict Klimek on any crimes. His defense focused on Texas’ Stand Your Ground law. While 23 states have passed some form of Stand Your Ground self-defense law, Texas is considered one of the most most expansive self-defense laws in the country
Also:
On Wednesday, a grand jury agreed and declined to indict Klimek, effectively dropping all of the charges against him.
Jury declines to indict man in deadly road rage shooting - Houston Chronicle

Sabcat January 15th, 2016 07:33 AM

people die, adding in political talking points doesn't make it any more or less of a tragedy.

foundit66 January 15th, 2016 08:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sabcat (Post 898885)
people die, adding in political talking points doesn't make it any more or less of a tragedy.

Does the achievement or failure to achieve justice make it any less of a tragedy?

After 9/11, could Americans just go "Well, that sucked!"
Or is it more realistic to recognize that Americans across the nation felt a sense of vindication when they heard Osama bin Laden had been killed?

In self-defense, there is typically a sense of reciprocal response. Fist-fight met with fist-fight.
But we're seeing more and more examples of "fist-fight, but the one guy had a gun so he ended it" when there is no demonstrable danger to life justifying a lethal response.
And for the law to treat this as no need to take it to trial? Sad state of development...

BubbaJones January 15th, 2016 08:29 AM

I'm all for stand your ground. I like living in a state that has it. However, this is just wrong. I have the same issue here I had with Zimmerman. You should NOT be able to claim stand your ground when YOU initiate the conflict !! You get in someone's face, and it escalates into violence, you have to accept that you started the conflict. And you damned sure don't get to pull a weapon and kill someone, then claim self defense when you realize you're about to lose the fight you started !!

Sabcat January 15th, 2016 08:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by foundit66 (Post 898896)
Does the achievement or failure to achieve justice make it any less of a tragedy?

After 9/11, could Americans just go "Well, that sucked!"
Or is it more realistic to recognize that Americans across the nation felt a sense of vindication when they heard Osama bin Laden had been killed?

In self-defense, there is typically a sense of reciprocal response. Fist-fight met with fist-fight.
But we're seeing more and more examples of "fist-fight, but the one guy had a gun so he ended it" when there is no demonstrable danger to life justifying a lethal response.
And for the law to treat this as no need to take it to trial? Sad state of development...


-the justice you are referring to is nothing more then societies acceptable way to seek vengeance it doesn't validate the tragedy one way or another

-IMO the bin laden thing was a giant charade and if it placated the masses it is sad.

-gone are the days when you can just kick someones ass on the side of the road, in a bar or after work for being a dick.

Hollywood January 15th, 2016 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by foundit66 (Post 898841)
Driver Shouted ?Go Back To Islam!? As He Shot Muslim In ?Stand Your Ground? Killing

Some aspects of "stand your ground" I agree with.
Some aspects of the law go ridiculously too far, allowing for situations like the above to be "legal". :angry:

Why in the fuck would a person choose to kill an unarmed man instead of simply driving off? I don't get that.

LongWinded January 15th, 2016 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by foundit66 (Post 898841)
Driver Shouted ?Go Back To Islam!? As He Shot Muslim In ?Stand Your Ground? Killing

Some aspects of "stand your ground" I agree with.
Some aspects of the law go ridiculously too far, allowing for situations like the above to be "legal". :angry:

Nothing about stand your ground makes sense. These men need to get life sentences and then put to death from republcian budget cuts.

excalibur January 15th, 2016 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BubbaJones (Post 898898)
I'm all for stand your ground. I like living in a state that has it. However, this is just wrong. I have the same issue here I had with Zimmerman. You should NOT be able to claim stand your ground when YOU initiate the conflict !! You get in someone's face, and it escalates into violence, you have to accept that you started the conflict. And you damned sure don't get to pull a weapon and kill someone, then claim self defense when you realize you're about to lose the fight you started !!


Zimmerman did not use 'stand your ground' as his defense.




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