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Old May 10th, 2017, 03:00 AM   #11
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I ask this in all sincerity - can someone please explain to me why having guns makes society safer?

I understand that many bad guys have guns, but surely we should be aiming to de-escalate rather than engaging in an arms race? More guns in society must - by definition, lead to more accidents and - sadly - tragedies....or not?
I feel safer having a loaded gun in my home even though my house is out in the country with no crime for miles around. Disadvantaged youths and convicted felons from the inner city buy illegal guns on the street and they could be driving around out here choosing my house for a target of opportunity. An ounce of precaution is worth a pound of cure.
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Old May 10th, 2017, 03:31 AM   #12
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I can fully understand that and it seems to me a moderate response - single firearms for exactly as you describe. I guess I am still unsure about 'concealed carry', why those in the city should need them and why 'semi-automatics' etc are allowed. Its a balance between keeping individuals safe, as you describe and actually making the situation worse and increasing paranoia. Shouldn't the principle be moderation and de-escalation?
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Old May 10th, 2017, 03:40 AM   #13
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I can fully understand that and it seems to me a moderate response - single firearms for exactly as you describe. I guess I am still unsure about 'concealed carry', why those in the city should need them and why 'semi-automatics' etc are allowed. Its a balance between keeping individuals safe, as you describe and actually making the situation worse and increasing paranoia. Shouldn't the principle be moderation and de-escalation?
I chose a Smith & Wesson .357 mag, seven shot, long barrel revolver with no safety. All I have to do is pull the trigger and bang. I would never choose a semi-auto because they can and do jam.

edit: A semi-auto also has more than one safety and I might fumble with them in a heated moment.

Last edited by Twisted Sister; May 10th, 2017 at 03:45 AM.
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Old May 10th, 2017, 10:27 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by deGanis View Post
I ask this in all sincerity - can someone please explain to me why having guns makes society safer?

I understand that many bad guys have guns, but surely we should be aiming to de-escalate rather than engaging in an arms race? More guns in society must - by definition, lead to more accidents and - sadly - tragedies....or not?
Study by John Lott, every county in the entire history of the US. Every single time gun carry laws were "liberalized", that is made easier for indiviuals to carry; crime and gun related death went down. Every time.
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Old May 10th, 2017, 11:19 AM   #15
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Study by John Lott, every county in the entire history of the US. Every single time gun carry laws were "liberalized", that is made easier for indiviuals to carry; crime and gun related death went down. Every time.
Of course webbie doesn't give a link to the study he is referencing, but here is a Wikiperia article on the guy that mostly eviscerates the study.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_L...and_crime_rate
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Old May 10th, 2017, 11:38 AM   #16
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Of course webbie doesn't give a link to the study he is referencing, but here is a Wikiperia article on the guy that mostly eviscerates the study.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_L...and_crime_rate
The data since the 1990s has proven John Lott correct. The non-eviscerating sources used by Wikipedia are from the 1990s and 2001 and are irrelevant crime decreasing by half as gun ownership increased and more states adopted concealed carry laws. The FBI crime data also substantiates Lott work.
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Old May 10th, 2017, 12:00 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by Twisted Sister View Post
I chose a Smith & Wesson .357 mag, seven shot, long barrel revolver with no safety. All I have to do is pull the trigger and bang. I would never choose a semi-auto because they can and do jam.

edit: A semi-auto also has more than one safety and I might fumble with them in a heated moment.
I can understand your point. However, I can think of no country in the modern western world whose police and military do NOT use semi-automatics instead of revolvers. Being a veteran you are certainly aware, more than most, that the military and police very often are involved in "heated moments." Proper maintenance is important to prevent jams.
I've never owned a revolver, only semi-automatics.
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Old May 10th, 2017, 12:03 PM   #18
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Study by John Lott, every county in the entire history of the US. Every single time gun carry laws were "liberalized", that is made easier for indiviuals to carry; crime and gun related death went down. Every time.
I'd love to see that report. Got a link to it?
To the report, NOT to a site claiming what is in it.
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Old May 10th, 2017, 12:04 PM   #19
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The data since the 1990s has proven John Lott correct. The non-eviscerating sources used by Wikipedia are from the 1990s and 2001 and are irrelevant crime decreasing by half as gun ownership increased and more states adopted concealed carry laws. The FBI crime data also substantiates Lott work.
Fine. Give a link to the data you refer to.
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Old May 10th, 2017, 01:04 PM   #20
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Study by John Lott, every county in the entire history of the US. Every single time gun carry laws were "liberalized", that is made easier for indiviuals to carry; crime and gun related death went down. Every time.
Interesting. So I wonder then - if Lott's study is reliable (and I note lots of objections) why does the US seem to respond completely differently than many other countries? For example in Western Europe guns are severely restricted and yet there is hardly a resurgent crime wave. This aside, I wonder if - returning to one of my earlier points - if Lott's studies, whilst showing crime went down, also analysed whether accidents and tragedies (not to mention paranoia) increased?
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