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Old May 15th, 2017, 04:07 PM   #81
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Please see my point above - the individual can vote for their representatives and can remove them. I trust you agree with that? In what way is that not democratic?

With respect, I am not sure my reference to guns is irrelevant. Another poster said that guns were needed to protect the citizens from the government. That is palpable nonsense - in a democracy, or whatever alternative name you wish to come up with for when there is universal suffrage - there is no need to have guns to protect yourself from government. as this question was started by me and asking how guns keep us safer, I am not sure how it is 'moot.' Your argument seems to be 'that's just the way it is' - forgive me, I don't see that as an argument

How do I need to restructure nature if I want to rethink unalienable rights? Rights are derived by people (men usually) deciding what they are; they don't naturally occur. Just because someone claims they are unalienable doesn't make them so.
You are still referencing voting in a state. The Constitution is a compact between the states. That has no impact on the federal government being a democracy.

You are listing one reason for firearms.

You are confusing positive rights with negative rights, their sources, and the state of nature.
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Old May 15th, 2017, 06:08 PM   #82
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You are still referencing voting in a state. The Constitution is a compact between the states. That has no impact on the federal government being a democracy.

You are listing one reason for firearms.

You are confusing positive rights with negative rights, their sources, and the state of nature.
Bull-fucking-shit.
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Old May 15th, 2017, 06:10 PM   #83
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The US's govenment model cannot be implemented in other countries because the US model is a compact between states and not a country such as a nation-state.

Unalienable rights are always good ideas.
Bull-fucking-shit.
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Old May 16th, 2017, 06:34 AM   #84
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Originally Posted by deGanis View Post
Please see my point above - the individual can vote for their representatives and can remove them. I trust you agree with that? In what way is that not democratic?

With respect, I am not sure my reference to guns is irrelevant. Another poster said that guns were needed to protect the citizens from the government. That is palpable nonsense - in a democracy, or whatever alternative name you wish to come up with for when there is universal suffrage - there is no need to have guns to protect yourself from government. as this question was started by me and asking how guns keep us safer, I am not sure how it is 'moot.' Your argument seems to be 'that's just the way it is' - forgive me, I don't see that as an argument

How do I need to restructure nature if I want to rethink unalienable rights? Rights are derived by people (men usually) deciding what they are; they don't naturally occur. Just because someone claims they are unalienable doesn't make them so.
Completely wrong.

Even if a democracy were perfectly uncorrupted the power of the ballot only protects the majority. The whole point of the USA is everyone has rights , especially the unpopular.
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Old May 16th, 2017, 06:41 AM   #85
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Bull-fucking-shit.
Jimmyb is mentally challenged. : )
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Old May 16th, 2017, 08:24 AM   #86
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Completely wrong.

Even if a democracy were perfectly uncorrupted the power of the ballot only protects the majority. The whole point of the USA is everyone has rights , especially the unpopular.
I understand; but this is the case in all 'democracies' (or whatever we are agreeing to call countries with universal suffrage!!). But you seem to imply (in the context of this discussion) is that in the US the electorate has guns if they don't like what the majority decide. (Apologies, I don't wish to simplify, but is that what you mean?) If that is the case, then how can that ever be good? Democracy (or whatever) is built on consensus and working out solutions in a grown up way. If a group of people aren't prepared to go along with that or challenge in a 'political' way, isn't that precisely what I am implying a) not good for society as a whole b) not at all good for the democratic process c) very very dangerous d) a recipe for paranoia
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Old May 16th, 2017, 01:41 PM   #87
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Jimmyb is mentally challenged. : )
Man, that is harsh.
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Old May 17th, 2017, 05:19 PM   #88
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Originally Posted by deGanis View Post
I understand; but this is the case in all 'democracies' (or whatever we are agreeing to call countries with universal suffrage!!). But you seem to imply (in the context of this discussion) is that in the US the electorate has guns if they don't like what the majority decide. (Apologies, I don't wish to simplify, but is that what you mean?) If that is the case, then how can that ever be good? Democracy (or whatever) is built on consensus and working out solutions in a grown up way. If a group of people aren't prepared to go along with that or challenge in a 'political' way, isn't that precisely what I am implying a) not good for society as a whole b) not at all good for the democratic process c) very very dangerous d) a recipe for paranoia
There will always be evil in this world. Including democratically elected evil. Hitler was elected, too bad the Jews, Gypsies, and homosexuals didn't have guns.
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Old May 17th, 2017, 05:23 PM   #89
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There will always be evil in this world. Including democratically elected evil. Hitler was elected, too bad the Jews, Gypsies, and homosexuals didn't have guns.
That example in particular, makes you off your nut if you think the Jews and Gypsies having guns would have made a difference. You seem to forget that at the time Hitler was very popular. Way more popular than Trump on a percentage of the population basis. Any uprising by an armed Jewish/Gypsy coalition would have been hammered.
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Old May 17th, 2017, 05:28 PM   #90
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That example in particular, makes you off your nut if you think the Jews and Gypsies having guns would have made a difference. You seem to forget that at the time Hitler was very popular. Way more popular than Trump on a percentage of the population basis. Any uprising by an armed Jewish/Gypsy coalition would have been hammered.
See the movie Defiance. True story. Guns made a difference.
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