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Old November 9th, 2017, 11:00 AM   #81
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Originally Posted by discollector View Post
WRONG. Most of us here know your argument. It's all in your head; it's a social construct, blah, blah, blah.

Like it or not, America was founded by Christians and its values are consistent with biblical principles. Before you go there, I did not say we are a theocracy. We are not nor were we founded as such. But, our culture is inclusive of our Christian heritage.

As such, the founders concept of Liberty is predicated upon biblical principles.

On the issue of gun control, the Bible records an instance where Lot was taken captive and Abraham gathered together the modern equivalent of a citizen militia whereupon they secured Lot's release and brought back all the things seized by Lot's captors (see Genesis 14: 12 - 16)

In the 22nd chapter of Luke Jesus told his apostles to buy a sword. He told them to buy one even if they had to hock their robe in order to do so. When you study Scripture, it's pretty evident where we, as a nation, got our values from.

I get that you don't like Christians. I understand where you're coming from. Yet every civilization has some foundational principle upon which the concept of right and wrong is built. America's foundational principles are built on biblical principles and they have served us well for over 200 years.
The nation was not founded by Christians. The founders concept of Liberty came from oppression and being ruled without representation. Many of those people happened to be Christian. Our laws came about via English Common Law. The colonies came about via sharecroppers.

The Old Testament. LMFAO Then Luke out of context. SMFH
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Old November 9th, 2017, 11:56 AM   #82
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Originally Posted by Quigley View Post
Like it or not, America was founded by Christians and its values are consistent with biblical principles

Yes an no. They liked the Biblical Morality and indeed modeled our Government and Legal system after it, but they were Deists and Freemason's.

But, our culture is inclusive of our Christian heritage.

Yes, and they meant it to be just that. They understood the people they represented and they knew that they had to separate US "Christianity" from the State controlled Anglican Church.
It appears to me that I already stipulated that we were not founded as a theocracy.

The overwhelming majority of the founders were Christians; I'm not so sure all of them were Masons - or if they even knew what it was really about. Ditto for Deists.

Mainstream context is what you should be concerned with:

https://www.britannica.com/topic/The...ianity-1272214

The relevant issue is that you agree that the founders modeled our system of jurisprudence on Christian precepts. Among those foundational principles is that government protects the weak from the strong.

So, we adopted some of the ideas of John Locke. Among those ideas, one site had this to say regarding Locke:

"By far the most influential writings emerged from the pen of scholar John Locke.

He expressed the radical view that government is morally obliged to serve people, namely by protecting life, liberty, and property. He explained the principle of checks and balances to limit government power. He favored representative government and a rule of law. He denounced tyranny. He insisted that when government violates individual rights, people may legitimately rebel
."

https://fee.org/articles/john-locke-...-and-property/

"Nothing is unchangeable but the inherent and unalienable rights of man" Thomas Jefferson
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Old November 9th, 2017, 12:08 PM   #83
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Originally Posted by justoneman View Post
Exactly. This guy in texas obtained a gun, threatened his mother in law, murdered 26 people even though thete were laws making these actions illegal.

What needed to happen was this guy should have already been in jail. There are countless people around the USA who should be in jail but the system is looking to try to keep people out of prison because society is producing more deviants than the prisons can hold.
In most states they toss mental patients into jails and prisons. A quick look on this thread reveals that some mental patients (professional trolls come to mind) are out shopping for controversy and confrontation from the comfort of their mother's basement. They don't work and in between run ins with the law, they commit acts that should be enough to have them put into protective custody (at the least.) In the case of Devin Kelley he was an escapee from a mental institution, a wife beater, etc., etc. He belonged in a prison or a mental institution until he could be rehabilitated.
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Old November 9th, 2017, 12:18 PM   #84
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Originally Posted by Hollywood View Post
WTF is your people's obsession with Chicago? Yes, it's the 2nd largest city in the U.S. but you people seem just completely obsessed with it.
WHY do you seem to think that Chicago has the "strictest gun control in the nation?"
Just because you say that at every opportunity or what?
And they can't see the stupidity of trying to use that as an argument when the gun laws all around the city are more lax.
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Old November 9th, 2017, 12:21 PM   #85
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And they can't see the stupidity of trying to use that as an argument when the gun laws all around the city are more lax.
You're just mad because the facts don't go your way using Chicago as an example.
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Old November 9th, 2017, 12:24 PM   #86
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Originally Posted by BS Filter View Post
The democrat party is totally made up of lawyers. They love laws, more and more laws to control the people, but not themselves. They're above the law. They USE the law for selfish political purposes. Republicans are becoming just like them. That's why Washington DC is such a swamp.
Bullshit.
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Old November 9th, 2017, 12:29 PM   #87
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I understand Chicago is an embarrassment and Democrats don't want to talk about it. The reason democrats don't want to talk about it is because Chicago is a colossal glittering billboard for failed democrat policies on gun control. I could mention Baltimore, Detroit, St. Louis, Oakland, etc.
I asked you a question, a couple actually. I AM talking about Chicago, not avoiding talking about it at all. I asked you two questions concerning Chicago directly, YOU seem to not want to talk about anything specific.
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Old November 9th, 2017, 12:32 PM   #88
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Originally Posted by Sensible View Post
god
Who's interpretation of God's will and or directions?
Was our Constitution written by Priests and ministers or lawyers and large land owners?
Do we sit trained lawyers on the Supreme Court or priests and ministers?
You spout nonsense.
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Old November 9th, 2017, 12:35 PM   #89
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Originally Posted by discollector View Post
I guess, if you wanted to be a cynic, that's an opinion, but not very factual.

The Declaration of Independence, according to its author:

"The Declaration of Independence . . . [is the] declaratory charter of our rights, and the rights of man." Thomas Jefferson

So, excuse me, Hollyweird, but I'll take Jefferson's word over what you say the Declaration is about.

And, moving along, the "Divine Providence" to which the signers of the Declaration of Independence believed in prevailed and King George got his ass kicked instead. The faith of the signers was instrumental in bringing about the constitutional Republic we live under today AND is a factor in the Liberties and Freedoms you enjoy today.
What did I say that is not historical fact?
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Old November 9th, 2017, 12:36 PM   #90
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Every page. The right to self defense is inherent.
Bullshit.
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