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Old March 31st, 2018, 05:36 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by Camelot View Post
C’mon IT, how can you beat a private contractor like Edward Snowden ? Or a private contractor like Blackwater that slaughtered innocent Iraqi civilians and had to change their companie’s name ? Or a private contractor like Halliburton who overbilled the U.S government to the tune of billions in Iraq and skimped on safety devices on the Deep Water Horizon oil drilling platform that ended up polluting the whole Gulf of Mexico and destroying their whole shrimping industry ? Ayn Rand would be proud of comrade Sabcat.
or a POTUS that ordered bombins weddings in Afganistan..

Or.. Government Police officers in Blue States that Beat a Black man 1/2 to death and get off.\

Or Government Police officers in a blue state that shoot an unarmed man in his back yard 8 times in the back and nothing is done

Or a Democrat Run VA Healthcare system (100% Government single payer that delayed care until 307,000 Military verterans died.) Then have a POTUS (Obama) give the director a BONUS.
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Old April 1st, 2018, 05:13 AM   #52
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Almost every mass shooting in the US occurs in a “gun free zone “. We know from interviews with surviving shooters they look for such a targets. So if a whacked out kid decides life is meaningless and wants to go out leaving a pile of dead bodies it seems obvious that the one thing that might deter him from walking from one classroom to the next is not knowing which teacher is going to shoot him.

So does anybody have any logical reason why allowing school teachers the option of exercising their 2nd ammendment rights would be bad?


We have already discussed this, but if you want to go over it for the 10th time--okay. Why teachers will not pack pistols in public schools and why Trump's idea is absolutely ignorant:

1. Billions and billions of dollars! There are about three million public school teachers in the U.S., so Trump’s “20% force” would be about the size of the Army and Marines enlisted forces combined. We’d be doubling the size of that force, in the name of arming our schools. Training the teachers--more $$$. Re-training--more $$. Cost of a glock? $500. AR-15s? $1200. Do the math.

2. Collateral damage. Will teachers spray and pray that they don't hit the kids? Crossfire? Ever seen children/teens passing between classes? Gathered in the library or lunch room? We're talking about schools with thousands of kids. Shooters (like Cruz) will pull the fire alarm or call in a bomb threat--then start blasting. Where will the teachers be? In front of the kids? In back of the kids?

3. Liability. This isn’t a private citizen liability--although it could be. This liability would be on the schools. After all, schools and their employees are held accountable for what happens on their watch. If a child is crippled or killed by a school employee---WHO IS HELD accountable? Who is responsible for the gun fire? The idea to arm teachers just gives pro-gun rights jackals another point of blame to distract from gun control: The teachers failed.

4. Who's going to do this? The demographics of teachers has to come into play. About 77 percent of teachers are women—up slightly from 76 percent in 2012. In primary schools, nearly 9 in 10 teachers are women. In high schools, less than two-thirds are. The average age of teachers is 42, down slightly from 43 in 2012. Ask the women of this country how they feel about a gun and holster and the notion of killing someone. Go ahead. Ask. See what you get.

5. Concealed carry? OR gun locked away? That is the question. If teachers choose a concealed carry a student can grab that gun and do irreparable harm---in seconds. Ever heard of "impulse control"??
On the other hand, if (for safety's sake) the gun is locked away (gun and ammo separated) there may be NO WAY to get to the locked gun--in seconds (again), particularly if teachers are OUT of their classrooms. Think of the scenarios.

6. Why do we teach? Those who teach are academics with a love of children. Most are book-worms, part psychologist, part nurse, part counselor, part lecturer, part mentor and part surrogate parent. NONE of those qualities endear them to violence. Educators are peace-loving by nature. They preach fairness, justice, honesty, helping, and other social skills. Their days are spent communicating, writing, encouraging, planning and organizing. These are not people who embrace brutality and killing.

I probably haven't covered everything but these points should give everyone something to think about when this topic comes up AGAIN.
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Old April 1st, 2018, 05:51 AM   #53
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or a POTUS that ordered bombins weddings in Afganistan..

Or.. Government Police officers in Blue States that Beat a Black man 1/2 to death and get off.\

Or Government Police officers in a blue state that shoot an unarmed man in his back yard 8 times in the back and nothing is done

Or a Democrat Run VA Healthcare system (100% Government single payer that delayed care until 307,000 Military verterans died.) Then have a POTUS (Obama) give the director a BONUS.
Once agin you have no shame. You lie and you think we’re just going to swallow your BS. Then you disappear for a while, come back and think we aren’t going to remeber that you’re nothing but a liar.
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Old April 1st, 2018, 08:19 AM   #54
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We have already discussed this, but if you want to go over it for the 10th time--okay. Why teachers will not pack pistols in public schools and why Trump's idea is absolutely ignorant:

1. Billions and billions of dollars! There are about three million public school teachers in the U.S., so Trump’s “20% force” would be about the size of the Army and Marines enlisted forces combined. We’d be doubling the size of that force, in the name of arming our schools. Training the teachers--more $$$. Re-training--more $$. Cost of a glock? $500. AR-15s? $1200. Do the math.

2. Collateral damage. Will teachers spray and pray that they don't hit the kids? Crossfire? Ever seen children/teens passing between classes? Gathered in the library or lunch room? We're talking about schools with thousands of kids. Shooters (like Cruz) will pull the fire alarm or call in a bomb threat--then start blasting. Where will the teachers be? In front of the kids? In back of the kids?

3. Liability. This isn’t a private citizen liability--although it could be. This liability would be on the schools. After all, schools and their employees are held accountable for what happens on their watch. If a child is crippled or killed by a school employee---WHO IS HELD accountable? Who is responsible for the gun fire? The idea to arm teachers just gives pro-gun rights jackals another point of blame to distract from gun control: The teachers failed.

4. Who's going to do this? The demographics of teachers has to come into play. About 77 percent of teachers are women—up slightly from 76 percent in 2012. In primary schools, nearly 9 in 10 teachers are women. In high schools, less than two-thirds are. The average age of teachers is 42, down slightly from 43 in 2012. Ask the women of this country how they feel about a gun and holster and the notion of killing someone. Go ahead. Ask. See what you get.

5. Concealed carry? OR gun locked away? That is the question. If teachers choose a concealed carry a student can grab that gun and do irreparable harm---in seconds. Ever heard of "impulse control"??
On the other hand, if (for safety's sake) the gun is locked away (gun and ammo separated) there may be NO WAY to get to the locked gun--in seconds (again), particularly if teachers are OUT of their classrooms. Think of the scenarios.

6. Why do we teach? Those who teach are academics with a love of children. Most are book-worms, part psychologist, part nurse, part counselor, part lecturer, part mentor and part surrogate parent. NONE of those qualities endear them to violence. Educators are peace-loving by nature. They preach fairness, justice, honesty, helping, and other social skills. Their days are spent communicating, writing, encouraging, planning and organizing. These are not people who embrace brutality and killing.

I probably haven't covered everything but these points should give everyone something to think about when this topic comes up AGAIN.
@Clara

I agree teachers should not be responsible for security issues on that level, or carry guns in the classrooms--one reason being it is a second job and they would have to be much more vigilant, and paid more for it, amongst other reasons. However, did you read my previous comment? Most schools already have unarmed Security teams, all they would have to do is allow the security contractors to carry weapons as they do at other locations/events. This would not cost much of anything more than at current, nor would it put any extra burden on the faculty.
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Old April 1st, 2018, 08:29 AM   #55
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Originally Posted by Clara007 View Post
We have already discussed this, but if you want to go over it for the 10th time--okay. Why teachers will not pack pistols in public schools and why Trump's idea is absolutely ignorant:

1. Billions and billions of dollars! There are about three million public school teachers in the U.S., so Trump’s “20% force” would be about the size of the Army and Marines enlisted forces combined. We’d be doubling the size of that force, in the name of arming our schools. Training the teachers--more $$$. Re-training--more $$. Cost of a glock? $500. AR-15s? $1200. Do the math.

2. Collateral damage. Will teachers spray and pray that they don't hit the kids? Crossfire? Ever seen children/teens passing between classes? Gathered in the library or lunch room? We're talking about schools with thousands of kids. Shooters (like Cruz) will pull the fire alarm or call in a bomb threat--then start blasting. Where will the teachers be? In front of the kids? In back of the kids?

3. Liability. This isn’t a private citizen liability--although it could be. This liability would be on the schools. After all, schools and their employees are held accountable for what happens on their watch. If a child is crippled or killed by a school employee---WHO IS HELD accountable? Who is responsible for the gun fire? The idea to arm teachers just gives pro-gun rights jackals another point of blame to distract from gun control: The teachers failed.

4. Who's going to do this? The demographics of teachers has to come into play. About 77 percent of teachers are women—up slightly from 76 percent in 2012. In primary schools, nearly 9 in 10 teachers are women. In high schools, less than two-thirds are. The average age of teachers is 42, down slightly from 43 in 2012. Ask the women of this country how they feel about a gun and holster and the notion of killing someone. Go ahead. Ask. See what you get.

5. Concealed carry? OR gun locked away? That is the question. If teachers choose a concealed carry a student can grab that gun and do irreparable harm---in seconds. Ever heard of "impulse control"??
On the other hand, if (for safety's sake) the gun is locked away (gun and ammo separated) there may be NO WAY to get to the locked gun--in seconds (again), particularly if teachers are OUT of their classrooms. Think of the scenarios.

6. Why do we teach? Those who teach are academics with a love of children. Most are book-worms, part psychologist, part nurse, part counselor, part lecturer, part mentor and part surrogate parent. NONE of those qualities endear them to violence. Educators are peace-loving by nature. They preach fairness, justice, honesty, helping, and other social skills. Their days are spent communicating, writing, encouraging, planning and organizing. These are not people who embrace brutality and killing.

I probably haven't covered everything but these points should give everyone something to think about when this topic comes up AGAIN.
Total gun banner nonsense! It seems to me liberals will do anything to keep school shooters alive and well. You have no idea what a live fire scenario is like in a target rich environment, so you make up silly crap about feelings and peace loving, blah blah blah, never once realizing that most people if given the means to do so can use a gun for self defense. No, you people play little word games that you think will hide you motive which is banning guns, which is a fools errand. Every time we have a school shooting in a gun free death guaranteed zone, We find out how the shooter had issues that were known, that some had crimes committed that were ignored, and the police stayed hidden until the shooting stopped. And then you cry for more gun control which has been proven to do nothing. Fools all. That or you are paid to spew this bullshit.
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Old April 1st, 2018, 08:34 AM   #56
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@Clara

I agree teachers should not be responsible for security issues on that level, or carry guns in the classrooms--one reason being it is a second job and they would have to be much more vigilant, and paid more for it, amongst other reasons. However, did you read my previous comment? Most schools already have unarmed Security teams, all they would have to do is allow the security contractors to carry weapons as they do at other locations/events. This would not cost much of anything more than at current, nor would it put any extra burden on the faculty.


That is the point they refuse to acknowledge. These are old collectivists. They like their big rules and arbitrary regulations.

Remove the regulations and allow it to happen organically. What do you have to loose?
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Old April 1st, 2018, 08:36 AM   #57
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That is the point they refuse to acknowledge. These are old collectivists. They like their big rules and arbitrary regulations.

Remove the regulations and allow it to happen organically. What do you have to loose?
Do you have any examples of removing the regulations and allowing people to "interact organically? I mean, examples of when this approached was used and it produced favorable outcomes.
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Old April 1st, 2018, 08:40 AM   #58
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Originally Posted by Clara007 View Post
We have already discussed this, but if you want to go over it for the 10th time--okay. Why teachers will not pack pistols in public schools and why Trump's idea is absolutely ignorant:

1. Billions and billions of dollars! There are about three million public school teachers in the U.S., so Trump’s “20% force” would be about the size of the Army and Marines enlisted forces combined. We’d be doubling the size of that force, in the name of arming our schools. Training the teachers--more $$$. Re-training--more $$. Cost of a glock? $500. AR-15s? $1200. Do the math.

2. Collateral damage. Will teachers spray and pray that they don't hit the kids? Crossfire? Ever seen children/teens passing between classes? Gathered in the library or lunch room? We're talking about schools with thousands of kids. Shooters (like Cruz) will pull the fire alarm or call in a bomb threat--then start blasting. Where will the teachers be? In front of the kids? In back of the kids?

3. Liability. This isn’t a private citizen liability--although it could be. This liability would be on the schools. After all, schools and their employees are held accountable for what happens on their watch. If a child is crippled or killed by a school employee---WHO IS HELD accountable? Who is responsible for the gun fire? The idea to arm teachers just gives pro-gun rights jackals another point of blame to distract from gun control: The teachers failed.

4. Who's going to do this? The demographics of teachers has to come into play. About 77 percent of teachers are women—up slightly from 76 percent in 2012. In primary schools, nearly 9 in 10 teachers are women. In high schools, less than two-thirds are. The average age of teachers is 42, down slightly from 43 in 2012. Ask the women of this country how they feel about a gun and holster and the notion of killing someone. Go ahead. Ask. See what you get.

5. Concealed carry? OR gun locked away? That is the question. If teachers choose a concealed carry a student can grab that gun and do irreparable harm---in seconds. Ever heard of "impulse control"??
On the other hand, if (for safety's sake) the gun is locked away (gun and ammo separated) there may be NO WAY to get to the locked gun--in seconds (again), particularly if teachers are OUT of their classrooms. Think of the scenarios.

6. Why do we teach? Those who teach are academics with a love of children. Most are book-worms, part psychologist, part nurse, part counselor, part lecturer, part mentor and part surrogate parent. NONE of those qualities endear them to violence. Educators are peace-loving by nature. They preach fairness, justice, honesty, helping, and other social skills. Their days are spent communicating, writing, encouraging, planning and organizing. These are not people who embrace brutality and killing.

I probably haven't covered everything but these points should give everyone something to think about when this topic comes up AGAIN.
No it doesn’t take billions of dollars. All that is needed is to allow teachers to exercise their constitutional God given right on a volunteer basis.

People who carry a gun legally do so to save and protect. this cartoon ridiculous slander of embracing brutality and killing is the height of absurdity.
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Old April 1st, 2018, 08:43 AM   #59
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To not have armed security in these schools is now an act of criminal negligence

Do away with the gun-free zones and hire armed security....yesterday!!
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Old April 1st, 2018, 08:46 AM   #60
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That is the point they refuse to acknowledge. These are old collectivists. They like their big rules and arbitrary regulations.

Remove the regulations and allow it to happen organically. What do you have to loose?
@Sabcat

Honestly, I do not know what the objection is. Police are already present at public school functions, with guns, semi-frequently; for instance, sporting events, sometimes dances, occasionally they will show up during the regular school day when 'making the rounds', etc. Why not just extend it a bit more and give the private security team the tools they typically would already have? Currently, if something like this happened (i.e. shooter on site), then there would be a team of unarmed Security that would be in a nearly identical position to the kids, staff, etc.--all they could realistically do is call the police, provide first aid, and wait.
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