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Old May 11th, 2011, 01:25 PM   #1
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I was not chased away. I am a big boy and if I wish to participate in discussions I will. If I choose not to join discussions, I won't. After about a month of being here, I had already tired of some of the discussions and how they were being handled. I decided that it was already time for a hiatus and I have taken one. I may continue the hiatus a bit longer, but I'll see. LIfe is too short not to do that which you enjoy. Now, I need to go check on the gardeners to ensure that they are mowing the grounds of the estate properly.



By the way Gary, here is what I want for health care. I do not want a government run program. I love freedom too much for that.



http://www.cato.org/pubs/handbook/hb109/hb_109-7.pdf



I don't expect you to agree with my plan, but I am more than willing ot let England have what they have. See how magnanimous I am? Heeheeeee! I believe that Paul Ryan's plan is not the ultimate goal, but as for Medicare, Ryan's plan is a step, albeit, a small one, in the right direction. At least it gets the individual purchasing the insurance and not a third party.


Thanks for your gracious approval of Britain's National Health Service - much appreciated guvnor! I will read the Cato doc later



Incredible though it may seem I agree with you about not allowing employers to come between patients and their doctors. Employer subsidised health insurance distorts the market and protects the individual from the true cost. That's why I think Obamacare won't work in the long run.



When individuals have to shop around and buy their own insurance, and face the high costs and the rejection letters, then the American people will finally realise that some form of single payer universal health care is the only viable solution.



I suspect their alleged disdain for "socialised" medicine will evaporate rapidly.



I fully expect it will take America another couple of decades to catch up to the rest of the industrialised world, perhaps less if health care costs continue to increase quickly.




This deserves a separate thread
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Old May 11th, 2011, 02:20 PM   #2
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Thanks for your gracious approval of Britain's National Health Service - much appreciated guvnor! I will read the Cato doc later



Incredible though it may seem I agree with you about not allowing employers to come between patients and their doctors. Employer subsidised health insurance distorts the market and protects the individual from the true cost. That's why I think Obamacare won't work in the long run.



When individuals have to shop around and buy their own insurance, and face the high costs and the rejection letters, then the American people will finally realise that some form of single payer universal health care is the only viable solution.



I suspect their alleged disdain for "socialised" medicine will evaporate rapidly.



I fully expect it will take America another couple of decades to catch up to the rest of the industrialised world, perhaps less if health care costs continue to increase quickly.




This deserves a separate thread


I agree this deserves its own thread, but I don't want to take the time now to go through the entire topic. I disagree with your prediction.



Before I leave for the day, I want to revisit the comment by waitingtables on Paul Ryan's plan. The link below ought to be viewed by all. It is an interview of the two chairmen of President Obama's Deficit Commission. This was shown last week and I dvr'd it when C-SPAN replayed it so that my wife could see this. This is a very interesting discussion about the deficit, what it means, and they discuss the Ryan plan and President Obama's Plan. When describing one of the plans, Erskine Bowles said it was a serious, sincere, real, honest, and straghtforward plan, just like it's author. Now, Erskine Bowles is a Democrat and was President Clinton's Chief of Staff. Guess which plan and person he was talking about?



http://cspan.org/Events/Debt-Commiss...10737421377-1/



Would anyone care to comment on what Bowles and Simpson have to say?
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Old May 12th, 2011, 10:06 PM   #3
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The state of the United States today is extremely fragile. Lawmakers are at war with one another over how to reduce our deficit while increasing our quality of living, and there is no end to the debate in sight. At the very core of this struggle over our future is a basic human necessity: health care. Many other developed nations have worked out sustainable models for health care, but in the US, costs are higher and quality of care is worse. The recent passage of health care reform is aimed at fixing our broken system, but many of us want to know: why is our health care so expensive in the first place? Medical Billing and Coding present part one of a two-part series detailing why our health care system is lagging behind those of other wealthy nations, both in affordability and in effectiveness.

http://www.businessp...t-of-the-world/



Canadians strongly support the health system's public rather than for-profit private basis, and a 2009 poll by Nanos Research found 86.2% of Canadians surveyed supported or strongly supported "public solutions to make our public health care stronger.



Germany has the world's oldest universal health care system, with origins dating back to Otto von Bismarck's social legislation, which included the Health Insurance Bill of 1883, Accident Insurance Bill of 1884, and Old Age and Disability Insurance Bill of 1889. In Britain, the National Insurance Act 1911 marked the first steps there towards universal health care, covering most employed persons and their financial dependents and all persons who had been continuous contributors to the scheme for at least five years whether they were working or not. This system of health insurance continued in force until the creation of the National Health Service in 1948 which extended health care security to all legal residents. Most current universal health care systems were implemented in the period following the Second World War as a process of deliberate health care reform, intended to make health care available to all, in the spirit of Article 25 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights of 1948, signed by every country doing so. The US did not ratify the social and economic rights sections, including Article 25's right to health.
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Old May 13th, 2011, 05:06 AM   #4
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Is a lack of Universal Health Care a sign of freedom?
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Old May 13th, 2011, 06:05 AM   #5
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Is a lack of Universal Health Care a sign of freedom?


Not necessarily, as we could have Obamacare. Universal Health Care takes away freedom.
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Old May 13th, 2011, 06:08 AM   #6
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The state of the United States today is extremely fragile. Lawmakers are at war with one another over how to reduce our deficit while increasing our quality of living, and there is no end to the debate in sight. At the very core of this struggle over our future is a basic human necessity: health care.


Then tell those who are not covered by any insurance, and who are not illegal aliens, to go out and purchase a medical savings account.
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Old May 13th, 2011, 06:46 AM   #7
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As if doing that would in any way address the reality of what a major illness or an accident can cost. People are losing their homes due to unforeseen illnesses and the costs associated with them. A medical savings account wouldn't begin to cover those costs. Single payer coverage is the best tool out there as of yet to address the fact that health care costs are 17% of our GDP, and that is only growing.
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Old May 13th, 2011, 08:38 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by gary' timestamp='1305291964' post='335601

Is a lack of Universal Health Care a sign of freedom?


Not necessarily, as we could have Obamacare. Universal Health Care takes away freedom.


"Obamacare" is not "Universal Health Care", there is not even a public option associated with this plan. It is insurance reform and it is an amalgamation of ideas that originated with Republicans. In fact, Paul Ryan's plan also has a mandate, although it is not called a mandate, it is a tax break for people who have health insurance either through their employer or that they have purchased on their own. Do you know what the difference is between a Democratic unconstitutional mandate for people to either purchase health care or get a tax penalty AND the perfectly sound Republican idea of giving people a tax break for purchasing their own healthcare? The color and party of the person in office who is presenting the plan. Apparently.





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Old May 13th, 2011, 08:46 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by intangible child' timestamp='1305266780' post='335592

The state of the United States today is extremely fragile. Lawmakers are at war with one another over how to reduce our deficit while increasing our quality of living, and there is no end to the debate in sight. At the very core of this struggle over our future is a basic human necessity: health care.


Then tell those who are not covered by any insurance, and who are not illegal aliens, to go out and purchase a medical savings account.


What if you have a sick child and cannot afford the high cost of health insurance but your income disqualifies you for Medicaid?




What if you are paying to put your children through college and paying a mortgage and buying health insurance and there's nothing left to save?



As you go through each day racked with pain I suppoe you can stll take comfort from the fact at least you are free!




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Old May 13th, 2011, 08:49 AM   #10
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"Obamacare" is not "Universal Health Care", there is not even a public option associated with this plan. It is insurance reform and it is an amalgamation of ideas that originated with Republicans. In fact, Paul Ryan's plan also has a mandate, although it is not called a mandate, it is a tax break for people who have health insurance either through their employer or that they have purchased on their own. Do you know what the difference is between a Democratic unconstitutional mandate for people to either purchase health care or get a tax penalty AND the perfectly sound Republican idea of giving people a tax break for purchasing their own healthcare? The color and party of the person in office who is presenting the plan. Apparently.







Why is it outrageous to mandate purchase of health insurance but it's fine to mandate hospitals to provide health care, regardless of the individual's ability to pay?

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