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Old November 8th, 2011, 05:30 PM   #1
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just asking in a kind of informal survey for my own interest.



what are peoples opinions of and attitude towards the use of electro convulsive therapy in psychiatry?



(note: this is not a test, i have no agenda, i am not going to jump on anyone who says the "wrong" thing, i am just interested in peoples opinion and attitudes, particularly from people outside australia)
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Old November 8th, 2011, 06:18 PM   #2
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zapppp em'
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Old November 8th, 2011, 06:26 PM   #3
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I had forgotten you are an Aussie!



I think the use of electro-convulsive therapy in psychiatry is barbaric and it doesn't work.



And it gave me a helluva headache
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Old November 8th, 2011, 08:43 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gary View Post
I had forgotten you are an Aussie!



I think the use of electro-convulsive therapy in psychiatry is barbaric and it doesn't work.



And it gave me a helluva headache


Moreover, it didn't work.
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Old November 10th, 2011, 05:52 AM   #5
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But isn't it true that in some instances it is very helpful? I mean in modern usage, not the barbaric forced type that was done incorrectly anyway. There are people suffering from extreme cases of depression or unwanted behaviors that have done it voluntarily and benefited from this, right? It doesn't work for everything, as has been proven in Australia and other countries that used it to see if it stopped pedophiles from wanting to molest children.
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Old November 10th, 2011, 05:53 AM   #6
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duplicate post
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Old November 10th, 2011, 11:33 AM   #7
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But isn't it true that in some instances it is very helpful? I mean in modern usage, not the barbaric forced type that was done incorrectly anyway. There are people suffering from extreme cases of depression or unwanted behaviors that have done it voluntarily and benefited from this, right? It doesn't work for everything, as has been proven in Australia and other countries that used it to see if it stopped pedophiles from wanting to molest children.


It's true that ECT often is effective for certain mental disorders, but at a cost:



Quote:
According to prominent ECT researcher Harold Sackeim, "despite over fifty years of clinical use and ongoing controversy", until 2007 there had "never been a large-scale, prospective study of the cognitive effects of ECT."[sup][56][/sup] In this first-ever large-scale study (347 subjects), Sackeim and colleagues found that at least some forms (namely bilateral application and outdated sine-wave currents) of ECT "routine[ly]" lead to "adverse cognitive effects," including global cognitive deficits and memory loss, that persist for up to six months after treatment, suggesting that the induced deficits may be permanent.[sup][56][/sup][sup][57][/sup]



...In July 2007, a second study was published concluding that ECT routinely leads to chronic, substantial cognitive deficits, and the findings were not limited to any particular forms of ECT.[sup][60][/sup] The study, led by psychiatrist Glenda MacQueen and colleagues, found that patients treated with ECT for bipolar disorder show marked deficits across multiple cognitive domains. According to the researchers, "Subjects who had received remote ECT had further impairment on a variety of learning and memory tests when compared with patients with no past ECT. This degree of impairment could not be accounted for by illness state at the time of assessment or by differential past illness burden between patient groups." Despite the findings of chronic, global cognitive deficits in post-ECT patients, MacQueen and colleagues suggest that it is "unlikely that such findings, even if confirmed, would significantly change the risk–benefit ratio of this notably effective treatment."[sup][60][/sup]



[sup]...[/sup]Six months after the publication of the Sackeim study[sup][56][/sup] documenting routine, long-term memory loss after ECT, prominent ECT researcher Max Fink published a review in the journal Psychosomatics concluding that patient complaints of memory loss after ECT are "rare" and should be "characterized as somatoform disorders, rather than as evidence of brain damage....



Psychiatrist Peter Breggin, chief editor of the journal Ethical Human Psychology and Psychiatry, is a leading critic of ECT who believes the procedure is neither safe nor effective. In a published article reviewing the findings of Harold Sackeim's 2007 study[sup][56][/sup] on the cognitive effects of ECT, Breggin accuses Max Fink and other pro-ECT researchers of having a history of "systematically covering up damage done to millions of [ECT] patients throughout the world."[sup][57][/sup] He disagrees with the position that findings of chronic, global cognitive deficits should have no bearing on the risk-benefit ratio of ECT, and he believes it's important to address the "actual impact of these losses on the lives of individual patients." In a section of his paper entitled Destroying Lives, Dr. Breggin writes, "Even when these injured people can continue to function on a superficial social basis, they nonetheless suffer devastation of their identities due to the obliteration of key aspects of their personal lives. The loss of the ability to retain and learn new material is not only humiliating and depressing but also disabling. Even when relatively subtle, these activities can disrupt routine activities of living."[sup][57][/sup]



A study published in 2004 in the Journal of Mental Health reported that 35 to 42% of patients responding to a questionnaire reported ECT resulted in loss of intelligence....



Doctors of Deception: What They Don't Want You to Know About Shock Treatment reports before-and-after IQ testing of persons receiving ECT, including the author, that show 30 to 40 point losses.[sup][55][/sup]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electro...dverse_effects
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Old November 10th, 2011, 11:50 AM   #8
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That would only make sense really. I guess it all depends on what one is suffering from and if that is worse than some loss of cognitive ability. It seems to be just like seizures. Surging electrical activity in the brain. You lose some brain power after suffering from them as well.
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Old November 10th, 2011, 01:34 PM   #9
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But isn't it true that in some instances it is very helpful? I mean in modern usage, not the barbaric forced type that was done incorrectly anyway. There are people suffering from extreme cases of depression or unwanted behaviors that have done it voluntarily and benefited from this, right? It doesn't work for everything, as has been proven in Australia and other countries that used it to see if it stopped pedophiles from wanting to molest children.


That approach gets into some very grey areas about who decides what behaviours are unwanted, or who is able to make decisions like that for themselves voluntarily.



Remember Cuckoos Nest and Nurse Ratchet?
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Old November 10th, 2011, 01:54 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by waitingtables' timestamp='1320936778' post='367222

But isn't it true that in some instances it is very helpful? I mean in modern usage, not the barbaric forced type that was done incorrectly anyway. There are people suffering from extreme cases of depression or unwanted behaviors that have done it voluntarily and benefited from this, right? It doesn't work for everything, as has been proven in Australia and other countries that used it to see if it stopped pedophiles from wanting to molest children.


That approach gets into some very grey areas about who decides what behaviours are unwanted, or who is able to make decisions like that for themselves voluntarily.



Remember Cuckoos Nest and Nurse Ratchet?


That would be the decision of the patient and the patient alone.
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