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Old February 25th, 2013, 06:30 PM   #1
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Medicine, Socialized

Because every aspect of a socialized health care industry is controlled and provided by the government—most doctors, nurses, medics, and administrators are government employees—the system, such as the National Health Service (NHS) in Britain, determines where, when, and how services are provided. Of course citizens may seek care outside the system, in the private sector.

Socialized medical systems are designed to eliminate the insurance industry and marginalize profit while providing health care for all. According to many recent studies, socialized systems outperform free-market profit-driven systems in terms of availability, quality, and cost of care. In addition a report from the Johns Hopkins University Bloomberg School of Public Health stated that the United Kingdom’s socialized medical system outperforms the U.S. system in patient-reported perceptions (Blendon, Schoen, DesRoches, et al. 2003). In other words, the people with direct experiences report greater satisfaction with their health services under a socialized system than they do in a free-market system. These results must be considered along with the fact that the U.S. per capita health care expenditures ($4,887) are nearly triple those in the United Kingdom ($1,992). In the year 2000 the United States spent 44 percent more on health care than Switzerland, the nation with the next highest per capita health care costs. Nevertheless, Americans had fewer physician visits, and hospital stays were shorter compared with those in most other industrialized nations. The study suggests that the difference in spending is caused mostly by higher prices for health care goods and services in the United States.

The British system is probably the most instructive example for Americans to evaluate because of the similarities in economy and government structure between the two nations. According to the NHS Web site, the system “was set up on the 5th July 1948 to provide healthcare for all citizens, based on need, not the ability to pay” (National Health Service 2007). Originally conceived as a response to the massive casualties of World War II (1939–1945), the system survives and continues to evolve in the early twenty-first century. The NHS is funded by taxpayers and managed by the Department of Health, which sets overall policy on health issues. Individual patients are assigned a primary care center (with doctors, dentists, optician, pharmacist, and a walk-in center) managed by a primary care trust (PCT). The NHS explains its system of referrals this way: “If a health problem cannot be sorted out through primary care, or there is an emergency, the next stop is hospital. If you need hospital treatment, a general practitioner will normally arrange it for you” (National Health Service 2007).
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Old February 25th, 2013, 06:44 PM   #2
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Is this the heatlhcare system we want???

Ambulance Stacking??





Or delays in care where people die.
so you have to buy PRIVATE INSURANCE above and beyond your GOVERNMENT CARE..


Top court strikes down Quebec private health-care ban - Canada - CBC News

As a result of delays in receiving tests and surgeries, patients have suffered and even died in some cases, justices Beverley McLachlin, Jack Major, Michel Bastarache and Marie Deschamps found for the majority.





The Quebec government reacted by saying it would apply immediately for a stay of between six months and two years before the decision takes effect, given the chaos it could cause in the delivery of medical services in Quebec.

Intergovernmental Affairs Minister Benoit Pelletier said the province would consider using the notwithstanding clause in Quebec's constitution as an alternative to abiding by the court's decision.
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Old March 7th, 2013, 08:50 PM   #3
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12 years ago, the World Health Organization released the World Health Report 2000. Inside the report there was an ambitious task — to rank the world's best healthcare systems.

The results became notorious — the US healthcare system came in 15th in overall performance, and first in overall expenditure per capita. That result meant that its overall ranking was 37th.


The 36 Best Healthcare Systems In The World - Business Insider
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Old March 7th, 2013, 09:43 PM   #4
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Socialized Medical Care Nations. (when you Exclude Fatal Accidents (Car wrecks accidents at work, drownings etc)

YOU DIE YOUNGER THAN IN THE US. It appears we in the US Live life on the Edge (apparenlty the most common last words in the US is (AHEY WATCH C'HIS).


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Old March 7th, 2013, 10:10 PM   #5
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a load of crap. demoncrats won't stop til we're all waitin more than a year between cancer diagnosis and treatment.
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Old April 12th, 2013, 12:42 AM   #6
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After a nearly 5 year hiatus i'm back with my crazy ideas.... And i'll start with the healthcare debate.
That universal healthcare means tremendous benefits for a society is an incontrovertible fact. Not a single bit of empirical evidence exists to support the existence of the medical insurance industry.
Those opposed to the provision of healthcare based on NEED rather than ability to pay, generally make the same arguments, so before anybody wastes time on listing them i'll do it and refute them at the same time.
1) Universal healthcare is expensive. Actually it isn't, but the insurance lobby will fight tooth and nail to convince you otherwise. However the numbers clearly show that societies with universal healthcare spend far less on it than the US. The simple reason being that healthcare becomes about the provision of health rather than the making of money. As a result most treatment tends to be preventative and cheaper, rather than curative and expensive. Also since the healthcare no longer has to sustain the profits of the inurance industry, a massive chunk of spending is simply cut away fromt eh budget. And lastly a healthier population will always mean a healthier economy as people will have more time to work and less time spent at home sick.
2) Free healthcare will be exploited by bums. Again a ridiculous statement that is grounded in a tragically low expectations of humanity. No to mention that there is actually no conceivable way that free healthcare can be exploited by patients. In the nordic countries, healthcare is 100% free, yet they have a lower unemployment ratio than the US. Free healthcare therefore does not mean that people sit on their ass. And even if there are exploiters out there, what are they going to do?? get a free appendectomy they don't need? Free healthcare is simply not susceptible to the same possiblities of exploitation as one connects with other welfare programs.
3) It is unreasonable to burden the US citizen with the taxes required for free healthcare. Again i don't understand why sensible US citizens are ok with paying through the nose to insurance companies (who have a stake in DENYING healthcare) instead of paying considerably less in terms of taxes to make healthcare provision 100% guaranteed. It will actually cost the individual MUCH LESS in terms of taxes than the insurance payments they make.
4) UNiversal healthcare is ineffective and has long waiting lines. Well the only reason this is the case is because FAR MORE PEOPLE ARE TREATED. The horror stories of people not getting timely treatment are for the most part purely fictional. And even so, at least these people GET TREATED as opposed to the vast hordes of US citizens simply denied treatment because they cannot afford insurance OR because the insurance company failed to cover.
5) the Insurance industry will die. Well i think that's jolly bloody good. Any industry that protects its profit margins by weaseling out of the grand promises they make it their sales pitches, deserves to be made redundant. In any case the talk here is only about HEALTH insurance (whereas millions of other types of insurance will continue to do brisk business). Nordic countries have their welathy insurance companies, but at least the worst damamge they can do is to deny people MONEY, rather than denying them the chance to STAY ALIVE.

Universal healthcare is a fundamental right and any society with an ounce of decency provides it to the best of its ability. That human lives are sacrificed for the sake of insurance lobby profit margins is morally bankrupt and i shudder at the thought of living in such a society. What i don't get is why so many maericans don;t feel the same.
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Old April 12th, 2013, 10:16 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by intangible child View Post
12 years ago, the World Health Organization released the World Health Report 2000. Inside the report there was an ambitious task — to rank the world's best healthcare systems.

The results became notorious — the US healthcare system came in 15th in overall performance, and first in overall expenditure per capita. That result meant that its overall ranking was 37th.


The 36 Best Healthcare Systems In The World - Business Insider
But the systems are not all created the same.

In the US we have huge numbers of CAT scan and MRI machines. Per capita quite high versus some of those other countries.

We also sustain massive tort problems in a system that does not penalize a side that brings a lawsuit. In many other nations if you bring a malpractice suit and lose, you pay. In America there is no such policy thus lawyers drain billions every year out of the health care system. This leads to overuse of tests, such as CAT scans and MRI's. Thus the costs are driven even higher in America compared to any other nation.

We also consider every live birth in infant mortality rates. Yet almost every other nation does not do this. Thus skewing infant mortality numbers in America, thus making our health care system seem more inefficient than it really is. That is: We consider premature infant death rates in overall infant mortality while most other nations only factor in full term births.

Last edited by excalibur; April 12th, 2013 at 10:33 AM.
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Old April 12th, 2013, 10:34 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hkbajwa View Post
After a nearly 5 year hiatus i'm back with my crazy ideas.... And i'll start with the healthcare debate.

Universal healthcare is a fundamental right and any society with an ounce of decency provides it to the best of its ability. That human lives are sacrificed for the sake of insurance lobby profit margins is morally bankrupt and i shudder at the thought of living in such a society. What i don't get is why so many maericans don;t feel the same.
you have a fundamental misunderstanding of what a "right" is. you cannot have a right at the expense of another person. your rights end at me, or whoever you're trying to oppress so you can get your free whatever.

you cannot have a "right" to healthcare unless you have a right to a slave.
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Old April 12th, 2013, 10:37 AM   #9
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oh, and point 5 is a lie from beginning to end, ok , maybe just false, but it's really obviously untrue
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Old April 12th, 2013, 10:47 AM   #10
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The idea that tort reform would have a big effect on costs of health care has not really been proven to be true. In fact, Texas did it and it didn't help at all.

Meme-busting: Tort reform = cost control | The Incidental Economist
Quote:



Texas is blue, the nation is red, and the law went into place at the dotted line. If anything, Texas’s Medicare spending seems to have gone up faster than the nation’s since 2003. Hardly a persuasive argument for tort reform = cost control.

Another thing you could do is compare areas with high and low malpractice premiums, and see whether doctors practice differently. Guess what? Someone did. In the same issue of Health Affairs, another study showed that tort reform, which might lead to a 10 percent reduction in malpractice premiums (not small), which might translate into a health-care spending reduction of 0.1 percent. Let me show you that in a chart:



If the pie represents our total health-care spending, then the blue wedge is defensive medicine. Not as big as you thought, likely. But the red sliver, which I pulled out for easier viewing, is what we could expect to see in savings from tort reform.

I’m not going to disagree that the malpractice system needs fixing. Likely, too many claims are filed that have no merit. In addition, many more are never brought to trial that absolutely do. I completely support efforts at malpractice reform.

But it’s not the solution to our high health-care spending. Tort reform does not equal cost control.
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