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Old September 2nd, 2016, 02:24 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by imaginethat View Post
For someone like my bank teller with two children who lost her Medicaid benefits when she got a raise in pay that did not cover her insurance premiums, single payer or government-run health care would be better than what she has now, which is nothing.

From your link:
While soaring medical costs in this country have driven many Americans to seek healthcare abroad, many patients from other nations continue to seek high-end care in the U.S. Some hospitals that have a reputation for treating certain ailments -- especially rare ones -- are doing a good reverse medical tourism business. But if our primary care was as good as, say, our ability to cure infant heart defects, fewer of our own citizens would be going to India or Mexico for routine operations.
Survival of the richest, again.

When have you been in government-run healthcare systems? If we want free health care for all then you best understand the quality of health care and treatment will go down FOR SOME, and for others healthcare will improve.

But in an atmosphere of fear and greed, partial equalization of care is to be avoided, eh coke?
so on one had your saying that its wrong for everyone to not have health insurance or free health care. On the other you are saying that if some people die because our health care quality went down to make allowances for your equalization then that is good. So in short you prescribe to hey fuck you go and die because you cant get that health care since other people cant afford it.
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Old September 2nd, 2016, 02:28 PM   #32
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i am not an organ donor and i don't expect to grab one off the list if one of mine fails.

lets have the nation stop taking in strays and then IMO issues like this one become more logical to entertain.

i honestly think that removing the state from medicine is the first step to fixing it. that means completely. patent laws, lobbyists, the FDA, DEA along w/ medic/medicare the works and obamacare. all the government does when it gets involved with things is fucks them up and makes them more inefficient and costly.

or maybe i am wrong...no there are not any government programs that are not inefficient, costly and corrupt.
Maybe i am wrong. There aren't any private-side programs that are inefficient, costly and corrupt. Leave business alone, and its leaders will cut into their profit margins and clean up their acts voluntarily, like they have always done in the past.

Your smart-ass closing ends our conversation on this subject. You live in a dream world. Leave businessmen alone and they will, every time without government "interference," do the right thing. Unfortunately, history proves you wrong, and tragically so in some cases.
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Old September 2nd, 2016, 02:35 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by coke View Post
so on one had your saying that its wrong for everyone to not have health insurance or free health care. On the other you are saying that if some people die because our health care quality went down to make allowances for your equalization then that is good. So in short you prescribe to hey fuck you go and die because you cant get that health care since other people cant afford it.
Whatever you say, however you want to twist it, your post reveals your fear and greed.

A form of medicine exists strictly for the well-off, and you stand tall for it. If providing for the well-off means a bunch of not-so-well-off folks have to get by without healthcare, hey, they must be losers and we already have enough losers so tuff nuts to them.

Is that your position?
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Old September 2nd, 2016, 02:42 PM   #34
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i never said that i was. last time i tried to get life insurance they denied me. i pay extra for insurance because of my reckless past and i understand why. i had to get a full diagnostic run because of multiple concussions and surprisingly there was absolutely nothing wrong w/ me besides low potassium levels i was given a green light. my point is that we are adding more and more people into an already broken system that have not taken care of themselves and suddenly they are breaking down and we are supposed to cover the costs. bullshit.
Now let me pose this question. First, WHO paid for all those tests you took ?? You directly out of pocket, or your regular health insurance company ??

Second, what about those that CAN'T afford routine doctors office visits ?? They don't have insurance so they let things slide. Hard living is one thing, but what about simple neglect ?? There are many conditions that have few symptoms until they nearly kills you. if you don;t feel bad, and can't really afford it, WHY would you go to a dr ??

What about genetics ?? I'm fat but have a cholesterol well under 200. I've lost weight and my BP is now lower than when I was a 20. But by the same token I have friends that are not over weight but have cholesterol of 300 or 400 and BP off the charts.

Part of what saves other countries a ton of money on medical costs is PREVENTATIVE medicine. Their citizens don't have to wait until they're sick to go see a Dr. Part of what's so broken in our system is it was for years entirely reactionary. We weren't encouraged to get yearly physicals. Only in the past few year have insurance companies gotten on the preventative bandwagon. But then again that's if you have insurance. Most people aren't going to go drop several hundred bucks on an annual physical.

Many of the people you're saying are going to be a drag on the system probably wouldn't be in as bad a shape had they had health care all along. Remember the old Frame oil filter commercials ?? Pay me now or pay me later. We WILL pay later when these people all turn 65 and wind up on Medicare. How much could we save by getting them into the habit of routine preventative healthcare ?
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Old September 2nd, 2016, 03:04 PM   #35
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Several times on several forums I have pointed out that the largest single cause of personal bankruptcy in the US is health care costs and that is people who have insurance.

And people ignore it, won't address it, pretend it isn't there.

That is the ultimate condemnation of your system, IMO.
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Old September 2nd, 2016, 03:11 PM   #36
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No one gets kicked to the curb and denied health care in the United States. They may not get the private room and they may not get the best care available, but they get care.
i volunteer w/ homeless and occasionally go to old folks homes to play cards or chess w/ the abandoned geriatrics. trust me at least here there is medical services available for any who need it. if you get really get fired for punching that cunt at work you hate because you could never afford that medicine but it is readily available for them.

again, anyone over 50 should start looking into liquidating as care for the elderly is wicked expensive and will drain your bank account but if you have nothing the state will take care of it.
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Old September 2nd, 2016, 03:15 PM   #37
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Do you honestly think you aren't paying for it NOW ?? Every year the cost of insurance goes up. Every year the cost of medical care goes up, usually at 5 to as much as 10 times the rate of inflation. We ARE already paying for the poor and their healthcare.

Another question, HOW MUCH do American corporations pay for health care and insurance ??? For all the blah blah blah about tax rates, NO ONE discusses the costs associated with health care for employees, (well, at least not until Obamacare came along) My company pays 75% of my premiums.

How are our companies supposed to compete when nearly every other industrialized nation on the planet has universal health care ?? We spend 30% more per person than the next nearest country. The real number is probably closer to 50% or 60% more once you factor in the number of uninsured in the nation.


From what I found it looks like companies spend 6% to 7% for health insurance. Smaller companies are probably a MUCH higher percentage. What if we allowed a one time repatriation of cash at 20%. Dropped the top bracket from 38% to 30% but implemented a minimum 15% rate. A minimum tax rather than trying to find and close all other loop holes and incentives. You make a profit you're gonna pay something. Then use the money to implement universal coverage ?

Just like in many of those other countries, companies can still offer employees private insurance. In England private insurance works with the public system and is very inexpensive.
Hell yes I'm paying for it! We all are!! What poor are we paying for? Would that be the 20,000,000 illegal aliens we're subsidizing be a cost benefit or loss? Your still stuck on who's obligation it is. The young, who don't need it are opting out. Who's picking up that obligation? Would that be you and me? Premiums are skyrocketing, and the deductibles are so high you might as well say your self insured. The moment Obimbo signed the ACA you gave up your health care choice and put it in the hands of a government who can't even run the Veterans Administration.
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Old September 2nd, 2016, 03:19 PM   #38
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Several times on several forums I have pointed out that the largest single cause of personal bankruptcy in the US is health care costs and that is people who have insurance.

And people ignore it, won't address it, pretend it isn't there.

That is the ultimate condemnation of your system, IMO.
What date do you have that supports that claim?
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Old September 2nd, 2016, 03:19 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by imaginethat View Post
Maybe i am wrong. There aren't any private-side programs that are inefficient, costly and corrupt. Leave business alone, and its leaders will cut into their profit margins and clean up their acts voluntarily, like they have always done in the past.

Your smart-ass closing ends our conversation on this subject. You live in a dream world. Leave businessmen alone and they will, every time without government "interference," do the right thing. Unfortunately, history proves you wrong, and tragically so in some cases.
w/ the ability to shop around you are aloud some sort of choice. the state is at fault for how bloated everything has become, they have created monopolies and business practices that are to expensive for anyone but those who are in their favor to compete in. just look at higher education and medicine both are extremely bloated and expensive and both have an endless stream of tax payer money flowing into them.

why is it ok for the state to gouge you on inflated prices but not your neighbor? my smart ass comment was the truth.
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Old September 2nd, 2016, 03:28 PM   #40
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Now let me pose this question. First, WHO paid for all those tests you took ?? You directly out of pocket, or your regular health insurance company ??

Second, what about those that CAN'T afford routine doctors office visits ?? They don't have insurance so they let things slide. Hard living is one thing, but what about simple neglect ?? There are many conditions that have few symptoms until they nearly kills you. if you don;t feel bad, and can't really afford it, WHY would you go to a dr ??

What about genetics ?? I'm fat but have a cholesterol well under 200. I've lost weight and my BP is now lower than when I was a 20. But by the same token I have friends that are not over weight but have cholesterol of 300 or 400 and BP off the charts.

Part of what saves other countries a ton of money on medical costs is PREVENTATIVE medicine. Their citizens don't have to wait until they're sick to go see a Dr. Part of what's so broken in our system is it was for years entirely reactionary. We weren't encouraged to get yearly physicals. Only in the past few year have insurance companies gotten on the preventative bandwagon. But then again that's if you have insurance. Most people aren't going to go drop several hundred bucks on an annual physical.

Many of the people you're saying are going to be a drag on the system probably wouldn't be in as bad a shape had they had health care all along. Remember the old Frame oil filter commercials ?? Pay me now or pay me later. We WILL pay later when these people all turn 65 and wind up on Medicare. How much could we save by getting them into the habit of routine preventative healthcare ?
and again i have no problem w/ that as long as it is optional and is for american citizens.

IMO if we are going to go full out socialism than i want everyone sterilized at ten and they are not allowed to breed until they can pass a battery of tests including a number of years being financially secure. enough stupid people having litters of stupid kids and not taking care of them. but no we do the exact opposite, fuck we not only reward the irresponsible behavior of citizens but we go out of our way to recruit them from other nations. the fuck?!?
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