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Old April 1st, 2017, 07:30 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by imaginethat View Post
I hope you realize that your conception of socialism is similar to your vision of liberalism: You are 100 percent blind to the plusses of both, and the plusses do exist.

The primary obstacle to better functioning government and society in general are peoples' unwillingness to acknowledge the good points made by those of political persuasions different from our own.

It's not institutions that hold back progress. It's attitudes.

The odds are quite good that your opponents are right more or less half the time. The same applies to you.

Absolute power corrupts absolutely.

Turning the means of production over to the state is far worse than what we already have, at least there is some sort of choice be much of it is an illusion.

No, I understand socialism and can recognize the positives that it has but they are purely theoretical. Once you add in the human factor to the equation it crumbles and it always will unless it could be perfectly streamlined. This would have to include limiting the gene pool and breeding out the weak and stupid. It is against human nature for 30% to pull the weight of 70% it is even counterproductive of the numbers are reversed. Take the massive alcoholic problem in the USSR. The intelligent were living unrewarding lives, feeling trapped saw nothing else to do but drink. The same goes for the poor who have been living on the dole for generations here in the states. There is a reason for the increase in drug abuse in those communities. Hopelessness. This is socialism, the human side. This is not even taking into account the fact that it cannot work economicly and that has been proven in the numerous social experiments in socialism that have happened throughout history. Crazy leftists love to cry Nazi and hitler and they wear a Mao t shirt when in fact socialism has killed many more humans throughout history than the Nazis could have ever dreamed of. Socialism just kills indiscriminately.
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Old April 1st, 2017, 10:59 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by Sabcat View Post
Absolute power corrupts absolutely.

Turning the means of production over to the state is far worse than what we already have, at least there is some sort of choice be much of it is an illusion.

No, I understand socialism and can recognize the positives that it has but they are purely theoretical. Once you add in the human factor to the equation it crumbles and it always will unless it could be perfectly streamlined. This would have to include limiting the gene pool and breeding out the weak and stupid. It is against human nature for 30% to pull the weight of 70% it is even counterproductive of the numbers are reversed. Take the massive alcoholic problem in the USSR. The intelligent were living unrewarding lives, feeling trapped saw nothing else to do but drink. The same goes for the poor who have been living on the dole for generations here in the states. There is a reason for the increase in drug abuse in those communities. Hopelessness. This is socialism, the human side. This is not even taking into account the fact that it cannot work economicly and that has been proven in the numerous social experiments in socialism that have happened throughout history. Crazy leftists love to cry Nazi and hitler and they wear a Mao t shirt when in fact socialism has killed many more humans throughout history than the Nazis could have ever dreamed of. Socialism just kills indiscriminately.
Preach that gospel brother Sabcat!
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Old April 3rd, 2017, 09:43 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by Sabcat View Post
Absolute power corrupts absolutely.

Turning the means of production over to the state is far worse than what we already have, at least there is some sort of choice be much of it is an illusion.
Thanks for the standard, off the shelf libertarian ruse that's been trotted out every time this deceitful and misleading political ideology was first invented! According to libertarians and more extreme objectivists and insane anarcho-capitalists, government is the source of all evil, and ending government institutions and taxes frees us all from bondage.

Funny how private, unelected and unaccountable power never fits under a libertarian microscope! Since the capitalist pushes towards gaining and maintaining monopoly when unchecked, we are fast reaching the time when industries from oil, media ownership, retail, pharmaceuticals and let's not forget arms merchants, have already reached the point where it's in their best interests to network with the handful of other masters of the universe to set prices and control business, libertarian bleating about power and absolute power is completely laughable and has no figleaf left to hide its true intentions! And that would be to make government unaccountable to the people, but instead accountable to the donor class! Libertarian paradise is already here!

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No, I understand socialism and can recognize the positives that it has but they are purely theoretical. Once you add in the human factor to the equation it crumbles and it always will unless it could be perfectly streamlined.
The real human problem with socialism is that modern society has busted up family and community connections that are still important in undeveloped societies today. The modern ideal (nuclear family) a man in charge of his woman and his children, living in his own house, who's lost connection with all but immediate family is a way of life that developed mostly in the 20th century, and has no connection with past family and community organization....especially the deep past, during the long period of most of human history and development, before fulltime farming, patriarchy and permanent settlements.

So, creating a modern socialist society, has to take people who have been distorted by life in unequal societies, and that is likely harder to do with today's high tech-addicted, branded millenials than it was 100 years ago. But, what is the alternative? What we have today is running on fumes and headed for a crash. And if you think collapse into anarchy will create libertarian paradise, think again! The societies that survive a crash are going to be small communities that already function by antiquated values of sharing and cooperating with neighbors. New York is in a shitload of trouble, just like Rome two millenia ago!

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This would have to include limiting the gene pool and breeding out the weak and stupid. It is against human nature for 30% to pull the weight of 70% it is even counterproductive of the numbers are reversed.
What the fuck are you talking about? No wonder you're a libertarian! "Limiting the gene pool" is a concept of modern selfish nazi-thinking libertarians/not the way normal people think and act about the weak and the disabled! Proof can be found right in those same genes you know nothing about, since our genetic programming allows us (especially women) to continue living long after our reproductive years have ended! This is highly unusual and may be totally unique in the animal world, but was essential as humans...starting with homo erectus millions of years ago, developed into strongly socially cohesive and interdependent small, traveling communities. Our genetic programming apparently determined that it was essential for the viability of the community that older women-grandmothers survive much longer and impart essential knowledge and wisdom to younger members of the group.

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Take the massive alcoholic problem in the USSR. The intelligent were living unrewarding lives, feeling trapped saw nothing else to do but drink.
Yes, let's take that! Russians were drinking too much liquor centuries before Marx and Lenin came along, and Russia's real alcohol crisis came after the crash of the Soviet system, among older Russian men who's life expectancy numbers dropped about 15 years in the early 90's. One of Putin's main strengths that enabled him to become president was because he was a teetotaler and was a sharp contrast to his fat drunken idiot boss-Yeltsin.

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The same goes for the poor who have been living on the dole for generations here in the states. There is a reason for the increase in drug abuse in those communities. Hopelessness.
So, let's take away all social programs including medicaid and food stamps, close schools, parks, recreation centers/and turn all that money over to increasingly totalitarian policing that libertarians and related rightwingers think is fine and dandy for black and brown neighbourhoods.

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This is socialism, the human side. This is not even taking into account the fact that it cannot work economicly and that has been proven in the numerous social experiments in socialism that have happened throughout history.
And exactly how many socialist experiments have there been? And let's compare that with fascist experiments and see how they stack up! One of the reasons why ruthless xenophobes moved to the front and led the successful communist revolutionary movements and governments is because the ones who weren't, in Europe were quickly overtaken by the fascists like Hitler, Franco and Mussolini preaching that fake populism that pulls many common people back in to work against their own class interests.

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Crazy leftists love to cry Nazi and hitler and they wear a Mao t shirt when in fact socialism has killed many more humans throughout history than the Nazis could have ever dreamed of. Socialism just kills indiscriminately.
Hitler had what? six years! You think the death toll would have ended if the Nazis won the War?
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Old April 3rd, 2017, 09:44 AM   #44
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Preach that gospel brother Sabcat!
John Hagee's preaching makes more sense!
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Old April 3rd, 2017, 09:55 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by right to left View Post
John Hagee's preaching makes more sense!
When was this "deceitful ideology" invented?
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