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Old January 14th, 2017, 10:25 PM   #31
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How do other countries afford health care?

Seriously, how do so many other countries manage to do something that the USA just can't afford?
Taxing their people far higher and enslaving the poor with ever increasing debts to their states. The poor cannot establish families in many European states, because many European states demand social security contributions from them, even though the poor have no income, unconstitutionally, unlawfully and groundlessly violating their natural right to freedom
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Old January 15th, 2017, 04:36 AM   #32
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Taxing their people far higher and enslaving the poor with ever increasing debts to their states. The poor cannot establish families in many European states, because many European states demand social security contributions from them, even though the poor have no income, unconstitutionally, unlawfully and groundlessly violating their natural right to freedom
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Old January 15th, 2017, 04:42 AM   #33
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So where is the GOP plan.
They are already moving forward with "Repeal" and the President-Elect has indicated he wants "Repeal" and "Replace" to happen simultaneously.
It takes months to turn vague outlines into broad agreement, and more months to turn broad agreement into detailed legislation, and the GOP hasn't even reached the vague outline stage.

It's been over six years of the GOP talking about replacing ObamaCare with "something better", but the only details I've seen or heard are partial answers, about reducing costs for some people by having someone else cover the cost.
Then they emphasize that most people will pay less.
So you have a system that most people pay less, so who pays for the rest?
And since most people pay less, who makes up the difference?

Here's a plan, first repair the glaring mistakes in the ACA, second, provide an opt out clause, where a state can come up with their own plan, and some minimum standard for what must be provided.
Since the GOP is chock full of plans that provide better care for lower cost, it won't be long before all kinds of better plans are put into place by states.
Yeah, that'll show 'em...

In the meantime, lets keep the GOP plan secret, so the Democrats don't steal it, like they stole the individual mandate....
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Old January 15th, 2017, 05:18 AM   #34
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So where is the GOP plan.
They are already moving forward with "Repeal" and the President-Elect has indicated he wants "Repeal" and "Replace" to happen simultaneously.
It takes months to turn vague outlines into broad agreement, and more months to turn broad agreement into detailed legislation, and the GOP hasn't even reached the vague outline stage.

It's been over six years of the GOP talking about replacing ObamaCare with "something better", but the only details I've seen or heard are partial answers, about reducing costs for some people by having someone else cover the cost.
Then they emphasize that most people will pay less.
So you have a system that most people pay less, so who pays for the rest?
And since most people pay less, who makes up the difference?

Here's a plan, first repair the glaring mistakes in the ACA, second, provide an opt out clause, where a state can come up with their own plan, and some minimum standard for what must be provided.
Since the GOP is chock full of plans that provide better care for lower cost, it won't be long before all kinds of better plans are put into place by states.
Yeah, that'll show 'em...

In the meantime, lets keep the GOP plan secret, so the Democrats don't steal it, like they stole the individual mandate....


Here's the GLARING problem facing the GOP as we hold the "deathwatch" for ACA. Actually it's more than ONE problem. First there is internal division about the repeal and replace. Remember the Trump motto (after the Repeal and Replace): I alone can fix it. Interestingly enough, the GOP doesn't seem to buy that. In fact, they are discovering that it's much easier to tear down than to BUILD UP. Hmmmm....funny no one thought of that in the past six years, isnt' it?? Second, without a credible replacement those individual markets will implode, as carriers leave the market. AND then there's the cost, and we KNOW how the GOP feels about the balanced budget--LOL--as if. A repeal and replace is going to cost hundreds of billions of dollars.
Also, let's not forget that SOME of the ACA cannot be changed without votes that the GOP doesn't have. Any replacement bill will need 60 votes in the Senate, which means Republicans will need to pick up support from at least eight Senate Democrats -- a tall order.
20 million Americans are watching. They may be on a bridge to No-Where.
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Old January 15th, 2017, 09:22 AM   #35
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You have the esteemed and honored position of being the first to start a thread on Trumpcare. Obamacare is being swept out the door and in walks Trumpcare. If I was a betting man, which I am not, would bet you that Trumpcare will not be shoved down our throats like a bitter pill.

Oh there's not going to be a bitter pill, because THERE IS NO PILL !!!!! Trump HAS NOTHING. The GOP HAVE NOTHING.

In the last 6 years, Republicans in the house have voted ... what ?? 60 times ?? to repeal Obamacare, but NOT ONE BILL to replace it. Not one bill to fix what they see as the the worst parts of the ACA.

Both parties have been talking about healthcare for more than 20 years. Right, wrong, good, bad or indifferent, the Democrats actually DID SOMETHING about it. The Republicans are NOT going let it stand. They WILL NOT fix it. They will NOT make adjustments. They will NOT address any of the problems. Because if they do, then they'll have to admit the idea was good, even if the execution was poor.

No they would rather tear it all down and leave millions of decent hard working people without insurance than admit Obama and the Democrats actually had a decent idea. Ironic considering Massachusetts STILL has ROMNEY CARE !!! On which Obamacare was based.

I predict the Republicans will succeed in repealing the ACA. They will then spend the next two years talking about how they're "working on a replacement", then ultimately offer NOTHING. Any legislation will be referred to committee for a slow death. I'll be damned surprised if a single meaningful piece of legislation ever comes up for a vote. And in the mean time our insurance premiums will keep going up, just like they have almost every year since I first started work 40 years ago.

The bitter pill will be millions of families no longer having even the most basic insurance coverage.
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Old January 15th, 2017, 05:32 PM   #36
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So still no Republican Health Care plan.
Individual Republicans have put out ideas, but nothing like consensus on even an broad outline.
Why do you think that after six years, there is no Republican Plan?

I think it's because they can't come up with anything that would work, that wouldn't involve doing things that their masters don't like.
Single payer or National Health would save trillions, but at the expense of profits.
And it would involve taxes, another no-no.
And health care that works winds up being popular, and popular government programs are something the GOP opposes, on "principle".
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Old January 16th, 2017, 03:48 AM   #37
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So still no Republican Health Care plan.
Individual Republicans have put out ideas, but nothing like consensus on even an broad outline.
Why do you think that after six years, there is no Republican Plan?

I think it's because they can't come up with anything that would work, that wouldn't involve doing things that their masters don't like.
Single payer or National Health would save trillions, but at the expense of profits.
And it would involve taxes, another no-no.
And health care that works winds up being popular, and popular government programs are something the GOP opposes, on "principle".

One thing we know for sure. The GOP friends in high places (Insurance CEOs/board members)---the ones raking in $10-20 million a year--are making a LOT of phone calls these days. LOL
Step right up, GOP. GET your reelection confirmed now. Cigna on line ONE!
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Old January 16th, 2017, 05:10 AM   #38
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The GOP has the votes, they just don't have the Bill...after 7 years, 7 years of saying that "anything would be better than ObamaCare", they still can't come up with "anything".

Look the Heritage Foundation came up with the individual mandate during the Nixon administration, it took 4 decades to make it into law.
The GOP doesn't even have a consensus on what their Bill should contain, and they expect it to become law in a few weeks.

The problem is that when you speak in terms of shifting cost away from people, by lowering premiums, by taking high cost patients out of the insurance pool, that sounds great to the people who you are telling will have their costs cut.
But to make that a law, you have to identify the people who will pick up that cost, and that's why there will probably never be a Republican Health Care Bill, because their wish is to "lower costs for everyone", and that's not possible, without some people getting less, not less health care, less profit, and that is against the GOP guiding principle, that big donors get crony treatment.
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Old January 16th, 2017, 05:48 AM   #39
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That is my next tattoo. I carry a card.

Do not resuscitate. Do not revive. Not an organ donor.

I need to have my attorney sign it and have that inked too.


Why would you NOT be an organ donor?
After all, you're nothing but worm food once you're dead, why not put those rotting organs to good use?
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Old January 16th, 2017, 05:52 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by fdtwain View Post
This is a moral question: those who cannot afford to pay for healthcare should be allowed to die in peace and dignity. If fools are protected from consequences of their mistakes, the world will be full of fools, as the twentieth century proves once again.
People should die from treatable diseases because they are poor? Serious question: What the fuck is wrong with you?
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