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Old April 28th, 2017, 04:54 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by Sabcat View Post
Start paying for your own military as we back out of the world police and international charity businesses.
Something stopping us from pulling our military out of the U.K?
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Old April 28th, 2017, 07:01 PM   #52
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Because there is an inherent flaw to using the free market to administer health care....That is the goal posts keep moving... Because of free market (Competitive) forces...better ways are found to combat serious diseases and prolong life, thereby raising the bar for what is considered accepted health care.... So now it becomes more and more expensive, because medicine is expected to fight diseases like Alzheimer's or various cancers, or whatever....and because of advances in medicine people live longer and then start running into new health problems that were not encountered when life expectancy was in the lower ages.....

Bottom line is the more health care advances the more people expect of it, and there will always be those who can pay for the advanced care and those who can not...
But the free market has had all of history and the entire world to come up with a solution, and it hasn't.
So what makes you think that the free market can ever come up with the answer?

Health Care has a characteristic, that the better it works the more expensive it becomes.
That's not true of the goods and services that the free market excels at delivering, the opposite is true of those goods, the better we get at them, the cheaper they become.

Health care, the kind that works well, costs too much for any individual to afford, it's a product of a social enterprise.
Consumers don't shop for health care, they don't become savvy buyers, there are things that the government can do better than the market, and health care is one of them.
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Old April 29th, 2017, 06:14 AM   #53
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I am currently a user of the NHS, having, naturally, contributed to it all my life, without ever noticing. What sort of weirdo supposes it 'owns me'. I'm sorry, but on all the evidence I have, right wing Americans are barking mad, and ought to be treated fast, before they do real harm.
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Old April 29th, 2017, 08:34 AM   #54
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800,000 UK citizens fly to the US for Healthcare each year. 600,000 fly to Singapore for Healthcare each year .
The total number of UK residents who travelled to Singapore last year including those on holiday and business was 450,000.
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Old April 29th, 2017, 09:42 AM   #55
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The total number of UK residents who travelled to Singapore last year including those on holiday and business was 450,000.
Just what do you have against alternative facts anyway?
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Old April 29th, 2017, 02:20 PM   #56
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But the free market has had all of history and the entire world to come up with a solution, and it hasn't. So what makes you think that the free market can ever come up with the answer?
The free market did a fine job of coming up with solutions....But, a solution is relative to what is expected....As better drugs were developed, they eased diseases and raised life expectancy.....or what is expected....This part is just an anti-free market rant, and not relative..


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Originally Posted by goober View Post
Health Care has a characteristic, that the better it works the more expensive it becomes. That's not true of the goods and services that the free market excels at delivering, the opposite is true of those goods, the better we get at them, the cheaper they become.
More nonsense....Take cell phones or computers for an example.....The better they became the more they were expected to do, obsoleting the older model and forcing users to by newer more expensive models.....And people do...

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Originally Posted by goober View Post
Health care, the kind that works well, costs too much for any individual to afford, it's a product of a social enterprise.
Consumers don't shop for health care, they don't become savvy buyers, there are things that the government can do better than the market, and health care is one of them.
See here is the fundamental disagreement... I do not oppose some sort of limited Government subsidies.....The question is "Which Government??"..I do not have a problem with States creating different plans for healthcare ....But I have a big honking problem If it is the Federal Government doing it.....Until they amend the US Constitution to allow it, not before..
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Old April 29th, 2017, 04:57 PM   #57
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The free market did a fine job of coming up with solutions....But, a solution is relative to what is expected....As better drugs were developed, they eased diseases and raised life expectancy.....or what is expected....This part is just an anti-free market rant, and not relative..
The US system has the biggest "free market" component of any system in the world and it charges twice as much to provide essentially the same product that other systems produce.


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More nonsense....Take cell phones or computers for an example.....The better they became the more they were expected to do, obsoleting the older model and forcing users to by newer more expensive models.....And people do...
Take cell phones for example, my smart does far more than my old flip phone, and it cost less, and the service costs a lot less and provides a lot more than the service I had ten years ago.
Take computers, the first computer I bought was Compaq "luggable", it cost $5000, the last computer I bought was hundred times as powerful for $500.


Quote:
See here is the fundamental disagreement... I do not oppose some sort of limited Government subsidies.....The question is "Which Government??"..I do not have a problem with States creating different plans for healthcare ....But I have a big honking problem If it is the Federal Government doing it.....Until they amend the US Constitution to allow it, not before..
The US constitution allows it now.

And heres the problem with states doing it, How do the states pay?
What if I work in one state, live in another, and require some health care while I'm on vacation in a third state?

This is 21st century, not the 18th century, people are mobile, and the system of government that may have made sense in 1780 doesn't make much sense today.
Big corporations serve the entire country, with a single headquarters, maybe some regional offices, they might have 1000's of locations, but it's based on where people are, not "the imaginary beings called states".
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Old April 29th, 2017, 05:41 PM   #58
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@ Jimgorn - when you or your father has a heart attack, how many emergency departments do you solicit bids from?

If you or he breaks his leg?

How does one apply a free enterprise model to healthcare?

And have the geographical limitations placed by states on insurance companies loosened up?

What do you think of the Mickey Mouse law?

I guess I wonder about your concept of free enterprise.
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Old April 29th, 2017, 07:11 PM   #59
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The US system has the biggest "free market" component of any system in the world and it charges twice as much to provide essentially the same product that other systems produce.



Take cell phones for example, my smart does far more than my old flip phone, and it cost less, and the service costs a lot less and provides a lot more than the service I had ten years ago.
Take computers, the first computer I bought was Compaq "luggable", it cost $5000, the last computer I bought was hundred times as powerful for $500.



The US constitution allows it now.

And heres the problem with states doing it, How do the states pay?
What if I work in one state, live in another, and require some health care while I'm on vacation in a third state?

This is 21st century, not the 18th century, people are mobile, and the system of government that may have made sense in 1780 doesn't make much sense today.
Big corporations serve the entire country, with a single headquarters, maybe some regional offices, they might have 1000's of locations, but it's based on where people are, not "the imaginary beings called states".
US healthcare is not the same as other countries and the Constitution does not allow it.
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Old April 29th, 2017, 07:33 PM   #60
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US healthcare is not the same as other countries and the Constitution does not allow it.
...Prove it.
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