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Old May 4th, 2017, 09:47 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by Sabcat View Post
Serious question. Why are we trying to expand the human lifespan?

We just hit 7.5 billion humans world wide.

We need to but the average lifespan for humans back down to 75. I go to the volunteer at the geriatric war you have no idea how many old people are just abandoned. The human body begins rapidly deteriorating around that age. They are just sucking up resorces.

This is a major flaw of socialized medicine.
I thought the major problem with socialized medicine was the much hyped "death panels". Those who would decide who lived and died based on their ability to contribute.

IOW, the very thing you are recommending with your post.
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Old May 4th, 2017, 10:25 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by imaginethat View Post
The point flew over your head.

In your perfect world, you could volunteer at the old folks' home as Termination Officer, your job not only deciding who should be terminated, but also you could be the Terminator.

It would be a fulfilling job, seeing how you feel about old folks.

Sure. I would pull the plug.


I didn't miss her point, it was poorly made. How would any of my statments apply to a 90yr who was out playing kick the can w/ their geriatric buddies


I will not accept an organ transplant, go on life support now and I am in great shape. I have a DNR and am thinking about it being my next tattoo.

Furthermore I am not on the public dole and if I were to choose to liquidate in a selfish attempt to prolong my life in the golden years that would be my choice, though I personally would not.
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Last edited by Sabcat; May 4th, 2017 at 10:37 AM.
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Old May 4th, 2017, 10:28 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by goober View Post
Well then, end your life now, save those resources for the rest of us, we'll figure out what to do without you.

You are really having a difficult time figuring out how extending human life benefits humans, huh?
Maybe no one told you, but we all expect to be old some day, well, except for you, noble sacrifice there, get on with it...
Man, you are stupid. Poor Snowflakes do not understand mathematics. Look when they are faced w/ a question, they lash out and divert the subject in avoidance.

Sad, so sad.
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Old May 4th, 2017, 10:36 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by Nwolfe35 View Post
I thought the major problem with socialized medicine was the much hyped "death panels". Those who would decide who lived and died based on their ability to contribute.

IOW, the very thing you are recommending with your post.
You missed it. They are attempting to expand people's lives when they are generally useless instead of increasing the quality of life during the productive ones.

In socialized medicine there is no way to accurately allocate resorces so the productive are constantly feeding into the pot. Well if the elderly continue to outlast their shelf lives they are not only taking but taking more and more new and expensive procedures longer and longer w/o adding in.

As more and more wealth is stolen from the young and productive to extend the lives of the elderly the young will have less resorces to create, build and expand their own families. The smart ones will have less children creating less tax slaves fucking up the whole house of cards.
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Old May 4th, 2017, 11:19 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by Sabcat View Post
You missed it. They are attempting to expand people's lives when they are generally useless instead of increasing the quality of life during the productive ones.

In socialized medicine there is no way to accurately allocate resorces so the productive are constantly feeding into the pot. Well if the elderly continue to outlast their shelf lives they are not only taking but taking more and more new and expensive procedures longer and longer w/o adding in.

As more and more wealth is stolen from the young and productive to extend the lives of the elderly the young will have less resorces to create, build and expand their own families. The smart ones will have less children creating less tax slaves fucking up the whole house of cards.
I didn't miss it.

This is the EXACT thing Palin was going on and on about during the 2008 campaign. Scaring people with the idea that there were "death panels" in any proposed health care legislation the Democrats wanted.

Now you're here saying the problem with government run health care (aka socialized medicine) is that it DOESN'T have the the "death panels" that Palin was warning us were in there.
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Old May 4th, 2017, 11:45 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by imaginethat View Post
Well please, expand your argument.
@imaginethat

Sorry, typed this on my Ipad when I was in Denver this morning and before my coffee. I meant Medicaid.

Medicaid has a problem with treating systemic issues and not the root cause. Medicaid also denies certain treatment/Surgeries that in some cases is mainstream in private sector.

In my case my daughter in California had a terrible accident. Her husband walked out on her one year prior and became a bum in a different state, no income, no Healthcare for his family.

I flew to California and enrolled my daughter in Medi-Cal prior to the accident, she was to proud and embarrassed to enroll until I made her.

Her accident:

She passed out while standing up at home in her bedroom after she put the 2 kids to bed. When she went down she landed on her knees in a praying position upright and legs folded underneath her, cutting most circulation off to her lower extremities. Doctors believe she was in this position for about 8-9 hours.

3 years later and she is still in a wheelchair. 2 Different types of surgery exist and she would be able to walk again but Medi-Cal does not cover it.

Doctors/Surgeons still do not know what caused her to pass out and for so long. No drugs or alcohol was involved.

After 3 months and 7 surgeries in the Hospital they transferred her to a Geriatric facility (A place for old people to die) for 2 months of rehab. Terrible place. 5 months total hospital time.

Being stuck in a wheelchair and laying in bed/or sitting on the couch brings on many different health issues in and of itself.

I fought Medi-Cal with no wins.

What I did learn was Medi-Cal is crap, overburden, terrible treatment options, understaffed and many....many Doctors and Surgeons in California refuse to accept Medi-Cal and you are very limited.

This does have a happy ending but California and Medi-Cal had nothing to do with it.

As I talked with other Medi-Cal patients in the waiting rooms I would ask them very pointed questions about Medi-Cal and the over whelming majority hated it for obvious reasons. Medi-Cal is the lowest of the low hanging fruit.

I had to go purchase leg wraps, guaze, tape, Arm wraps, antibiotic ointments to change her dressings. Seems the outpatient clinic she had to go to was always under stocked.

Yes, Government Healthcare and policy does pick winners and losers, had she private insurance or a policy that our elected officials have more than likely the 2 surgeries she requires would have been covered and she would be walking.

Some will say I am ungrateful, the state saved her life. The way I look at it is yes they saved her life but stopped all other treatment and surgeries after that without consideration of quality of life or ongoing medical treatment that will be required for being in a wheelchair and a sedimentary lifestyle.

To wrap this up, I do not trust government ran large healthcare programs because government has shown me and many others it can not run a National budget, run a Post office, run Education, run Energy or conduct war correctly and constitutionally let alone protect or borders.

Everything today is a political football and subject to revolving administrations.

My daughter is not alone in this experience, to many to even try and list here.
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Last edited by Toefoot; May 4th, 2017 at 11:50 AM.
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Old May 4th, 2017, 11:46 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabcat View Post
In socialized medicine there is no way to accurately allocate resorces so the productive are constantly feeding into the pot.
This phrase is amusing.

What is the "accurate" way this is done with "capitalistic" (for lack of a better phrase) medicine?
And the obvious second question, what standards are used to evaluate "accuracy"?


The truth is that if we say "socialism" rations healthcare, then the honest overview is that capitalism ALSO rations healthcare.
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Old May 4th, 2017, 11:51 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by Toefoot View Post
Sorry, typed this on my Ipad when I was in Denver this morning and before my coffee. I meant Medicaid.

Medicaid has a problem with treating systemic issues and not the root cause. Medicaid also denies certain treatment/Surgeries that in some cases is mainstream in private sector.

In my case my daughter in California had a terrible accident. Her husband walked out on her one year prior and became a bum in a different state, no income, no Healthcare for his family.

I flew to California and enrolled my daughter in Medi-Cal prior to the accident, she was to proud and embarrassed to enroll until I made her.

Her accident:

She passed out while standing up at home in her bedroom after she put the 2 kids to bed. When she went down she landed on her knees in a praying position upright and legs folded underneath her, cutting most circulation off to her lower extremities. Doctors believe she was in this position for about 8-9 hours.

3 years later and she is still in a wheelchair. 2 Different types of surgery exist and she would be able to walk again but Medi-Cal does not cover it.

Doctors/Surgeons still do not know what caused her to pass out and for so long. No drugs or alcohol was involved.

After 3 months and 7 surgeries in the Hospital they transferred her to a Geriatric facility (A place for old people to die) for 2 months of rehab. Terrible place. 5 months total hospital time.

Being stuck in a wheelchair and laying in bed/or sitting on the couch brings on many different health issues in and of itself.

I fought Medi-Cal with no wins.

What I did learn was Medi-Cal is crap, overburden, terrible treatment options, understaffed and many....many Doctors and Surgeons in California refuse to accept Medi-Cal and you are very limited.

This does have a happy ending but California and Medi-Cal had nothing to do with it.

As I talked with other Medi-Cal patients in the waiting rooms I would ask them very pointed questions about Medi-Cal and the over whelming majority hated it for obvious reasons. Medi-Cal is the lowest of the low hanging fruit.

I had to go purchase leg wraps, guaze, tape, Arm wraps, antibiotic ointments to change her dressings. Seems the outpatient clinic she had to go to was always under stocked.

Yes, Government Healthcare and policy does pick winners and losers, had she private insurance or a policy that our elected officials have more than likely the 2 surgeries she requires would have been covered and she would be walking.

Some will say I am ungrateful, the state saved her life. The way I look at it is yes they saved her life but stopped all other treatment and surgeries after that without consideration of quality of life or ongoing medical treatment that will be required for being in a wheelchair and a sedimentary lifestyle.

To wrap this up, I do not trust government ran large healthcare programs because government has shown me and many others it can not run a National budget, run a Post office, run Education, run Energy or conduct war correctly and constitutionally let alone protect or borders.

Everything today is a political football and subject to revolving administrations.

My daughter is not alone in this experience, to many to even try and list here.
So, the fact that California tries to at least offer some help and is probably terribly underfunded means all single payer systems are bad? Hell, it isn't even single payer.

My B-I-L had a GM X-car. That doesn't mean all cars are shitty.

Talk about apples and dinosaurs.
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Old May 4th, 2017, 11:58 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by RNG View Post
So, the fact that California tries to at least offer some help and is probably terribly underfunded means all single payer systems are bad? Hell, it isn't even single payer.

My B-I-L had a GM X-car. That doesn't mean all cars are shitty.

Talk about apples and dinosaurs.
Do you think this is a stand alone event in one state with one patient?
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Old May 4th, 2017, 12:04 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by Toefoot View Post
Do you think this is a stand alone event in one state with one patient?
Do YOU think it is typical?
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