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Old May 4th, 2017, 11:08 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by Toefoot View Post
Quality of life should never come into play. IV, Cathater, Meds and string them along to 101 years old.
And that has exactly what to do with my comment?
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Old May 4th, 2017, 11:57 AM   #32
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Do YOU think it is typical?
I spent plenty of time in waiting rooms and discussions with Medi-Cal patients.

Just google California Medicaid fails, to many to list. Hell the Hispanics tried to sue Medi-Cal because of no access to doctors while on Medicaid.

For your reading enjoyment:

California health officials failed to ensure that more than 9 million residents enrolled in Medi-Cal managed care plans had access to doctors when they needed them, the state auditor said in a stinging report Tuesday. Health officials might have learned about those problems from calls to an ombudsman’s office – but thousands went unanswered every month.

Among the report’s findings:

Incorrect or missing data on provider networks meant that state health officials had no idea if the plans had sufficient doctors and specialists, or if patients got the care they needed.

An average of 12,500 calls to the program’s ombudsman went unanswered each month for nearly a year, frustrating patients’ efforts to resolve problems.
Provider directories for three health plans – Health Net in Los Angeles County, Anthem Blue Cross in Fresno County and Partnership HealthPlan of California in Solano County – contained inaccurate or outdated information, ranging from incorrect telephone numbers for providers to listings for providers who no longer participated.

Overall, state officials failed to verify insurers’ information about their networks of doctors and hospitals.

The audit’s findings come as little surprise to health advocates, who have called attention to these problems as California shifted millions of Medi-Cal recipients from traditional fee-for-service care which enabled enrollees to see most Medi-Cal providers, into managed care programs with prescribed networks of doctors and hospitals.

About 76 percent of the 12.2 million adults and children receiving Medi-Cal, California’s Medicaid program, were enrolled in managed care programs as of March 2015.

Eligibility for Medi-Cal, the state-federal health program for the poor, expanded under the Affordable Care Act. Since last year, more than 3.5 million enrollees signed up for the first time. Nearly one in three Californians now receive coverage through the program.

“The audit confirms longstanding concerns about issues of oversight of Medicaid managed care plans and of access to Medi-Cal services,” said Anthony Wright, executive director of the statewide advocacy group Health Access. “I think people on Medicaid are very appreciative of the care they get and it’s far preferable to be being uninsured. What’s troubling is the finding that we don’t even know if people have access. We’re two steps away from solving the problems that exist if we don’t know what they are.”

The agency “agrees with many of the state auditor’s recommendations” and already has begun to work on improving oversight, Department of Health Care Services Director Jennifer Kent said in a statement.


The agency is upgrading the ombudsman’s phone system to handle more calls and is taking other steps to ensure that residents can get medical care when and where they need it, she noted.

The state’s Department of Health Care Services contracts with 22 health plans to provide managed health care services to Medi-Cal recipients, who must choose from managed care plans available in their counties.

The audit singled out the performance of the Medi-Cal Managed Care Ombudsman’s office, noting that too few staffers, an inadequate telephone system and a glitch-prone computer system kept it from addressing complaints.

The telephone system rejected thousands of calls each month, ranging from about 7,000 to more than 45,000, between February 2014 and January 2015.

Even when calls got through, staffers were able to answer only a third to a half of them, the audit noted. A database to maintain information on the calls crashed frequently, resulting in further loss of data.

Efforts to improve oversight of Medi-Cal managed care plans are underway. The Department of Health Care Services is creating a “dashboard” of plan performance indicators to better identify problems in real time.

Pending legislation would require health plans to more frequently update their provider lists for all consumers, not just those on Medi-Cal.

A new state law also will require health insurers, including those serving Medi-Cal managed care patients, to provide data to regulators on how much time it takes for patients to get appointments with their physicians.

The audit noted that the Department of Health Care Services also needs to improve how it reviews primary care provider directories, which can affect children’s ability to get medical care.

“With nearly half of all children in California enrolled in Medi-Cal managed care, the state is responsible for ensuring that children are actually able to access needed health services,” said Alison Buist, director of health policy for the Children’s Defense Fund. “The audit confirms what advocates have long suspected: The state is not effectively monitoring whether health plans have enough providers to serve the Medi-Cal population, and the mechanisms to identify challenges beneficiaries face in accessing care are not working as well as they should.”

In a statement, California State Sen. Edward Hernandez, chairman of the Senate’s health committee, cited lack of funding as a key factor.

“While disappointing, the results of this audit are not surprising,” Hernandez said. “The systematic underfunding of Medi-Cal is making it very difficult for plans to set up adequate networks, and DHCS is not doing enough to make sure the commitments we’ve made to beneficiaries are being honored.”

NPR LINKY: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...E4c5YSkuI2QeCg

Last edited by Toefoot; May 4th, 2017 at 11:59 AM.
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Old May 4th, 2017, 12:18 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by Toefoot View Post
Do you think this is a stand alone event in one state with one patient?
I don't know. I would doubt it is just one patient.

But the point is it has nothing to do with a well set-up single payer system. It is not that.

That is the fallacy of your position which you refuse to acknowledge.
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Old May 4th, 2017, 01:27 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by RNG View Post
I don't know. I would doubt it is just one patient.

But the point is it has nothing to do with a well set-up single payer system. It is not that.

That is the fallacy of your position which you refuse to acknowledge.
The "Well set-up" is your fallacy.

Our own government has proven time and again that it can not even manage itself Constitutionally let alone others. Are you aware of the deep division between our own citizens and government today?

What, Canada has 35 Million people, UK has 65 Million and the US has 351 Million people and you want a mandatory 1 stop shop healthcare for all?

Could you please put a price tag on that for each adult citizen annual tax along with no waivers from Congress and POTUS?

What is $11,000.00- $15,000.00 X 351 million among friends and Healthcare and this does not include all of the out of pocket cost and lost productivity.

Then throw in Payroll tax, Consumption tax, Car tax, Home owners tax. Fed/State/County/City fees.

Can you point out any Fed/State/County/City government in the US that is running currently in the black?
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Old May 4th, 2017, 01:50 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by Toefoot View Post
The "Well set-up" is your fallacy.

Our own government has proven time and again that it can not even manage itself Constitutionally let alone others. Are you aware of the deep division between our own citizens and government today?

What, Canada has 35 Million people, UK has 65 Million and the US has 351 Million people and you want a mandatory 1 stop shop healthcare for all?

Could you please put a price tag on that for each adult citizen annual tax along with no waivers from Congress and POTUS?

What is $11,000.00- $15,000.00 X 351 million among friends and Healthcare and this does not include all of the out of pocket cost and lost productivity.

Then throw in Payroll tax, Consumption tax, Car tax, Home owners tax. Fed/State/County/City fees.

Can you point out any Fed/State/County/City government in the US that is running currently in the black?
I would suggest you re-check revenue stream priorities and spending priorities.

Canada's cost per patient for healthcare in USD normalised for purchasing power is $4608.

In the UK it is $4003.

Currently the US is listed there at $9451.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...ure_per_capita

The World Bank publishes them as Canada -5292USD, UK-3935 and US-9403.

http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SH.XPD.PCAP

Check out both those sites for more data.

Last edited by RNG; May 4th, 2017 at 01:54 PM.
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Old May 4th, 2017, 01:52 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by Nwolfe35 View Post
I didn't miss it.

This is the EXACT thing Palin was going on and on about during the 2008 campaign. Scaring people with the idea that there were "death panels" in any proposed health care legislation the Democrats wanted.

Now you're here saying the problem with government run health care (aka socialized medicine) is that it DOESN'T have the the "death panels" that Palin was warning us were in there.
You are dancing w/ some deep desire to talk about palin and death panels.

In the proposed system goober the 75yr homeless junky would be provided the same care as Clara the 35yr elementary school teacher who runs 5 miles a day and had a clean bill of health before comming down w/ the same cancer as goober.

But since we keep prolonging the lives of the elderly eventually they will cost more to keep alive than the productive are forced to contribute.

My question is simple. How is this a positive for society? What does society gain?
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Old May 4th, 2017, 01:55 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post
This phrase is amusing.

What is the "accurate" way this is done with "capitalistic" (for lack of a better phrase) medicine?
And the obvious second question, what standards are used to evaluate "accuracy"?


The truth is that if we say "socialism" rations healthcare, then the honest overview is that capitalism ALSO rations healthcare.
In a capitalist system some people can make the choice to invest in prolonging their own lives.

What is the positive gain for society to steel from the productive to prolong the lives of the unproductive?
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Last edited by Sabcat; May 4th, 2017 at 02:22 PM.
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Old May 4th, 2017, 02:16 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by RNG View Post
I would suggest you re-check revenue stream priorities and spending priorities.

Canada's cost per patient for healthcare in USD normalised for purchasing power is $4608.

In the UK it is $4003.

Currently the US is listed there at $9451.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...ure_per_capita

The World Bank publishes them as Canada -5292USD, UK-3935 and US-9403.

Health expenditure per capita (current US$) | Data

Check out both those sites for more data.
Wonderful, you forgot the operating cost of the government to administer and monitor, grants, R&D loans via taxpayer and I can list much more before it gets down to patient level.

Agencies have a history of appetite that is never satisfied. I noticed you never answered the questions. Just throw government data that has been known to be manipulated.

Both Canada and the U.K. Health systems are in trouble and can not be sustained without going back to the people to raise taxes or increase funding and just print Fiat money.
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Old May 4th, 2017, 02:43 PM   #39
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In a capitalist system some people can make the choice to invest in prolonging their own lives.
Funny how you changed your approach on the issue...
Earlier you were talking about accurate and instead of answering that question you instead decided to give the propagandic one.


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What is the positive gain for society to steel from the productive to prolong the lives of the unproductive?
I believe you're thinking about school vouchers.
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Old May 4th, 2017, 03:03 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by Toefoot View Post
Wonderful, you forgot the operating cost of the government to administer and monitor, grants, R&D loans via taxpayer and I can list much more before it gets down to patient level.

Agencies have a history of appetite that is never satisfied. I noticed you never answered the questions. Just throw government data that has been known to be manipulated.

Both Canada and the U.K. Health systems are in trouble and can not be sustained without going back to the people to raise taxes or increase funding and just print Fiat money.
I can't speak of the UK system, but the government does not administer our system. And what grants and R&D? Those have SFA to do with healthcare or healthcare costs.

Your constant blathering of unfunded debt etc. turned out to be lies from RWNJ sites and whiner reports. All bullshit.

You sure are arguing vociferously against something, but the something isn't single payer healthcare.
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