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Old May 27th, 2017, 05:09 PM   #31
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It costs me nothing. Unless I pay for the parking when my wife comes to visit me, thieving bastards. Freaking thieves, they charge $3.25/hr.

I have used the Canadian healthcare system plenty in the last year or two. I did have to wait two days for a PET scan once. Since it was because the Doc was nosy. The other two that were needed now I got the same day. And a day and a half for a non-critical X-ray. How bad is that? We should rebel.

And I'm a few weeks short of 71. When will the death squads get me?
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Old May 27th, 2017, 05:23 PM   #32
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It costs me nothing. Unless I pay for the parking when my wife comes to visit me, thieving bastards. Freaking thieves, they charge $3.25/hr.
When l had my gall bladder removed last year that was the biggest gripe about my treatment.
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Old May 27th, 2017, 08:08 PM   #33
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Is healthcare a right if forcibly imposed? How can anything forcibly imposed be morally justified? When "force" enters the picture, "right" flies out the window.
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Old May 27th, 2017, 08:59 PM   #34
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Is healthcare a right if forcibly imposed? How can anything forcibly imposed be morally justified? When "force" enters the picture, "right" flies out the window.
National healthcare can't work unless it's national, and unfortunately owing to their fear and greed, some folks can't get on board unless forced.

If they aren't forced, then their fear and greed prevail.

How can letting fear and greed prevail be right?
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Old May 27th, 2017, 09:29 PM   #35
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National healthcare can't work unless it's national, and unfortunately owing to their fear and greed, some folks can't get on board unless forced.

If they aren't forced, then their fear and greed prevail.

How can letting fear and greed prevail be right?
Where do you find the Doctors?


Previously the best and the brightest went on to double the prescribed education going a small fortune into debt in the hopes that they would recoup the investment in the form of a superior paying job and prestige.

Now the socialist not only want to devalue college degrees by making them a "right" but they will devalue the fruits of the labor of those who have chosen to go into the medical profession calling them a right.

Add that to the bureaucratic cost that is the state. Nothing that has to go through government is reduced in cost. Infact it is exactly the opposite they are dramaticly inflated so far that agencies must be created to oversee the agencies that were run the programs and the state must use violence on the productive members of society to keep them running.

As this all goes on do you really expect the smartest people of this society to voluntarily go into this form of slavery? Or will you only be left w/ the people who are to stupid to out smart the system?


Where will you get the doctors?
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Last edited by Sabcat; May 27th, 2017 at 09:33 PM.
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Old May 27th, 2017, 09:31 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by imaginethat View Post
National healthcare can't work unless it's national, and unfortunately owing to their fear and greed, some folks can't get on board unless forced.

If they aren't forced, then their fear and greed prevail.

How can letting fear and greed prevail be right?
How can you criticize fear if your agreeing you want to force people to do something against their will? I think the jist of the thread is that medical providers would be forced to work against their will, or accept a lower payment against their will. I really can not see any one being forced to become a Doctor or Nurse regardless of what healthcare system we finally end up with. But, I would suspect that a short term massive Doctor shortage would occur if we did get away from the for profit system. I believe many Doctors would rather retire than deal with it.
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Old May 27th, 2017, 09:36 PM   #37
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When l had my gall bladder removed last year that was the biggest gripe about my treatment.
The day I had my fingers and foot removed. that was a big gripe.
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Old May 27th, 2017, 09:38 PM   #38
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Come look at the Canadian or the UK or the Australian or the Scandinavian systems. Nary a gun or a ball and chain being used.

What an incredibly stupid premise.


Taxation is Theft



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Also in 2012, during a Republican presidential debate, a young man asked the moderator to pose the following question to the candidates: “If I earn a dollar, how much of it am I entitled to keep?” The question was passed to one of the candidates, who punted, and then the moderator changed the topic. Only Congressman Ron Paul gave a serious post-debate answer to the young man’s question: “All of it.”

Every official foundational government document – from the Declaration of Independence to the U.S. Constitution to the oaths that everyone who works for the government takes – indicates that the government exists to work for us. The Declaration even proclaims that the government receives all of its powers from the consent of the governed. If you believe all this, as I do, then just as we don’t have the power to take our neighbor’s property and distribute it against his will, we lack the ability to give that power to the government. Stated differently, just as you lack the moral and legal ability to take my property, you cannot authorize the government to do so.

Here’s an example you’ve heard before. You’re sitting at home at night, and there’s a knock at the door. You open the door, and a guy with a gun pointed at you says: “Give me your money. I want to give it away to the less fortunate.” You think he’s dangerous and crazy, so you call the police. Then you find out he is the police, there to collect your taxes.

The framers of the Constitution understood this. For 150 years, the federal government was run by user fees and sales of government land and assessments to the states for services rendered. It rejected the Hamiltonian view that the feds could take whatever they wanted, and it followed the Jeffersonian first principle that the only moral commercial exchanges are those that are fully voluntary.

This worked well until the progressives took over the government in the first decade of the 20th century. They persuaded enough Americans to cause their state legislatures to ratify the Sixteenth Amendment, which was designed to tax the rich and redistribute wealth. They promised the American public that the income tax would never exceed 3 percent of income and would only apply to the top 3 percent of earners. How wrong – or deceptive – they were.

Yet, the imposition of a federal income tax is more than just taking from those who work and earn and giving to those who don’t. And it is more than just a spigot to fill the federal trough. At its base, it is a terrifying presumption. It presumes that we don’t really own our property. It accepts the Marxist notion that the state owns all the property and the state permits us to keep and use whatever it needs us to have so we won’t riot in the streets. And then it steals and uses whatever it can politically get away with. Do you believe this?

There are only three ways to acquire wealth in a free society. The inheritance model occurs when someone gives you wealth. The economic model occurs when you trade a skill, a talent, an asset, knowledge, sweat, energy or creativity to a willing buyer. And the mafia model occurs when a guy with a gun says: “Give me your money or else.”

Which model does the government use? Why do we put up with this?

.


https://mises.org/blog/taxation-theft

Last edited by Sabcat; May 27th, 2017 at 09:41 PM.
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Old May 27th, 2017, 10:02 PM   #39
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You cannot have a Right at the expense of another person, that is morally wrong.


its morally wrong to shoot cobwebs out of yu arsehole.
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Old May 27th, 2017, 10:06 PM   #40
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If healthcare is a fundamental human right then you are extorting labor from another person at the point of a gun.

You are choosing one of the smartest kids you went to schoool with, telling them they will have to study for another dozen years, go two hundred thousand dollars in debt, and serve you for whatever the government decides is compensation.

I think we have a constitutional amendment against this.
The current Miss USA said publically that health care is a privilege and she has a degree in nuclear physics and black.
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