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Old May 28th, 2017, 08:18 AM   #71
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Was there a bandwagon going by....no it was a short bus.

See? I told you.
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Old May 28th, 2017, 08:41 AM   #72
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It follows along w/ the premise just fine.

If one accepts the healthcare is to be treated as a right in the states, now in our current economical system "where will we get doctors?"

The way it is set up now some of the best and brightest elect to double the prescribed schooling and go a small fortune into debt in attempt to enter into the medical field. They do this because it is a lucrative and prestigious field. If we turn doctors into mailmen do you still expect the smartest and most able to choose this as their path?

smart and able people tend to be ambitious also.

There is truth behind the axiom "those that can't do, teach"
Pure blather Sab.

Please answer: Would you trust your healthcare to a doctor in it only for the money? Do you?
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Old May 28th, 2017, 08:41 AM   #73
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The "questions" had been already addressed in the previous posts.

But then again, you have been avoiding them also.
Which one(s)?
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Old May 28th, 2017, 08:43 AM   #74
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So, ONLY people that place an extraordinarily priority of financial success could possibly be among "our best and brightest?"

Dedicated clergy, military personnel, teachers, cops, etc. etc, could NOT possibly be among "our best and brightest" because if they were they would seek to be doctors with fabulously financially successful private practices?
Something like that.

Materialism is a mental disorder.
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Old May 28th, 2017, 09:12 AM   #75
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National healthcare can't work unless it's national, and unfortunately owing to their fear and greed, some folks can't get on board unless forced.

If they aren't forced, then their fear and greed prevail.

How can letting fear and greed prevail be right?
Is national healthcare working now? Obimbocare is dependent upon the young and healthy to subsidize it. The young and healthy are not buying it.
Just how fear and greed play a part in this is beyond me? This should be a states run program open to interstate competition. Healthcare is not, nor has it ever been an inherent right.
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Old May 28th, 2017, 09:24 AM   #76
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Pure blather Sab.

Please answer: Would you trust your healthcare to a doctor in it only for the money? Do you?
Do you really believe doctors enter the field based on some great need to help humanity? That they would spend all that time and money to become a doctor and not expect a just reward for their training? If helping humanity were their overriding drive, why are we seeing an appreciable drop in the number of candidates entering medical school? Remove just reward and you have removed the incentive.
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Old May 28th, 2017, 09:37 AM   #77
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Pure blather Sab.

Please answer: Would you trust your healthcare to a doctor in it only for the money? Do you?

"Pure blather"

How so..?


Maybe you should heed your own advice.

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Darlin', that's an evasive, chicken shit response.
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Old May 28th, 2017, 09:59 AM   #78
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The correct concept of rights was enunciated by Thomas Jefferson in the Declaration of Independence, the document that Americans ironically celebrate every Fourth of July. Jefferson observed that people have been endowed with certain unalienable rights, among which are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

The right to life simply means that you have the right to seek to sustain your life, especially by engaging in work or other economic enterprise. It does not mean that you can force others to sustain your life for you. It also means that no one has the right to wrongfully take your life from you. Thatís why we have laws against murder.

Liberty means the right to live your life any way you want, so long as your conduct is peaceful.

The right to pursue happiness isnít the same as a right to be happy. The right
entails seeking happiness, each in his own way, even if the peaceful choices one makes along the way meet with the disapproval of others. Drug usage comes to mind.

Thus, with respect to healthcare, people have a right to seek healthcare but they donít have a right to healthcare.

Whatís the difference?

Letís assume I walk into a doctorís office feeling ill. The doctor tells me that the visit is going to cost me $100. I refuse to pay and tell him that I have a right to healthcare. If I truly have such a right, then he is precluded from saying no when I demand free healthcare.

Yet, under the principles of liberty, self-ownership, and the pursuit of happiness, the doctor has the right to charge whatever he wants. In fact, he has the right to decide for himself who he is going to treat and not treat. Itís his body. Itís his skills. Itís his medical practice. No one has the right to force him to live for them, which is what a right to healthcare necessarily entails.


For example, lots of doctors today are refusing to treat Medicare patients because they donít like the federal bureaucracy, rules and regulations, excessive paperwork, governmental abuse, and risk of criminal prosecution that come with this socialist program. Thatís their right. Medicare patients have no right to healthcare. They cannot legally force the doctor to treat them.

So, people have the right to seek healthcare, just as they have the right to seek food, shelter, transportation, and other things. But they donít have the right to healthcare.

The situation is the same with respect to a spouse. No one has the right to be married. If people actually had such a right, they could force another person to marry them. If such a right existed, one can imagine someone approaching another person and saying, ďI have a right to a spouse and I have decided to marry you. You cannot say no because I have the right to be married.Ē

Thus, people have the right to seek a spouse, just as they have the right to pursue happiness. But they donít have the right to a spouse any more than they have a right to happiness.

A right to healthcare actually destroys the right to liberty. Thatís because such a right would enable people to force others to work for them, which is what slavery is all about. Letís say, for example, that I have the right to food. I could force a farmer to work all year long to provide me with my food, for free of course. Why would I have to pay for something to which I have a right? The same with housing. If I have a right to a house, I could force a home builder to build a house for me for free.

Now, hereís the really quirky thing about a right to healthcare, food, housing, and other things. If everyone has such rights, then they can demand that everyone else provide them with such things. But if everyone is demanding that everyone else provide him with free things, itís not difficult to see that such a society would quickly devolve into conflict, crisis, and chaos.

No One Has a Right to Health Care? - Ron Paul Liberty Report
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Old May 28th, 2017, 10:20 AM   #79
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A 92,000-doctor shortage is predicted by 2020.
Yes, and it will be worse when single payer is enacted. It can be overcame, but we will see decreased care and long waits in the interim. Make no doubt about that.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/sallypi.../#67f8d519322e
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Old May 28th, 2017, 10:51 AM   #80
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So in your view people shouldn't have to pay taxes, and as well as health care you are against paying for your fire and police services, not to mention your armed forces, because other people might benefit from them rather than you.
Like it or not, modern society requires that those that can pay do so towards collective benefits. Given the cost and complexity of modern health care it only makes practical sense to include heath care in this list of benefits we all contribute too ( and it doesn't even have to be run by the government, they merely have to set the ground rules for the scheme).
It should also be noted that in no western nation with a universal heath system has there ever been a call from a large section of its population to abandon the universal coverage aspect
Sometimes I wonder how can average libertarians be so stupid that they can't figure out the government they do want just happens to be the government services that rich people need most: policing to defend them and their property, and big expansive military...because their foreign holdings are protected by gunboat diplomacy!
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