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Old June 24th, 2017, 09:02 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by tristanrobin View Post
As somebody with a spouse who has student loans for schooling from B.A through Ph.D, I can tell you the government does NOT pay for student loans.

Jon didn't go to college until he was 40, so even though we're retired now, we're still paying off his 9 years of college. The government LOANED the money - they didn't pay for it.
Yes, they are loans but they are guaranteed loans. They even come with forgiveness clauses, although not readily available to everyone. As long as the government continues to guarantee student loans to cover tuition costs, tuition costs will keep going up. Same with health care.
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Old June 26th, 2017, 08:38 AM   #12
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It can not be free market if government is paying for it.
Work on your reading comprehension.
Your reply is mindlessly repeating the same rhetoric while ignoring the point that is being made.


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This is a example of what is wrong with college tuition as well. As long as institutions keep raising the price of tuition, the government will pay for it through student loans or military vouchers or other forms of subsidies.
And with that, you helped disprove any pretense that you knew what you were talking about.

You actually think the government pays for student loans?


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Hospitals are no different. They will continue to raise the rates, and people on medicare will continue to use emergency rooms as Dr. offices.
Again, failure on reading comprehension on your part.
Medicare rates ARE LOWER, as the article specified.
Additionally, they found that emergency departments charged an average markup of 340 percent on Medicare allowable amounts.
Rates without Medicare saw a 340% markup ABOVE the Medicare rates.
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Old June 26th, 2017, 09:44 AM   #13
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Yes, they are loans but they are guaranteed loans. They even come with forgiveness clauses, although not readily available to everyone. As long as the government continues to guarantee student loans to cover tuition costs, tuition costs will keep going up. Same with health care.


What loans are guaranteed loans?? Which loans have forgiveness clauses?? Let's see some links so we can discuss that more thoroughly.

My understanding is that guaranteed student loans are no longer available--since 2010. In any case, guaranteed student loans (if defaulted on) are taken over BY the government, giving the government the right to collect on that loan. Either way the loan is a LOAN not a gift. Even in a bankruptcy situation student loans are NOT forgiven. I suppose it's possible to go through the court system and have the loan forgiven, but extremely difficult and rare.
Forgiveness clauses? Sure. 1) Death 2) Bankruptcy through the courts, proving undue hardship 3) School closes/shuts down 4)Identity theft/fraud
5) Teachers who work for five years in a low-income designated district/public service

AND let's get something else straight. Tuition costs go up for the same reasons everything else goes up. Add to that the requirements needed in technology, professor's salaries, gutted state budgets, student support services, costs of utilities/building maintenance/housing/food......additional classes required for 21st century job markets.

Requirements for graduating have changed in the last 4-5 decades. The job market has shifted radically in recent decades, and employers now seek out graduates with hard skills that are in high demand: science, technology, engineering, math and health care. Students are encouraged to be bilingual--to travel--to expand their extracurriculars. Each one of these requirements raises the cost.
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Old June 26th, 2017, 10:43 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by Sabcat View Post
Shh...progressive economics 101. The state has unlimited resorces and there are no negative repercussions to utilizing them.
Unfortunately that is a belief among many
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Originally Posted by goober View Post
Education and Health Care are not well suited to market solutions.
These are two areas where the government can do a better job for less money.

That is what all the data points to.
I support medicare for all. Not Medicaid
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Originally Posted by skews13 View Post
And Republicans in Congress want to increase that traffic to the emergency rooms, while cutting the funding for those bills at the same time.

Which explains why the AARP, and National Hospitals Association is against both bills the Republicans have put forward.

Healthcare isn't about free markets.

Used care sales is about free markets.

Healthcare is about not getting sick and dying.

So you can be healthy enough to participate in the free markets.

Your idea of health care has already been proven a failure.

Which is why the Affordable Care Act was passed.

The country will not be returning to the days before the Affordable Care Act.

At worse, Republicans will be a temporary bump in the road in that endeavor.

And then the free marketers will rue the day when single payer comes to town.

And nobody will shed a tear that billions in profits will be lost to the private healthcare industry.

And if leaving the country appeals to you. Here's the bad news.

Every other country you might possibly want to escape to already has single payer health care.

Sucks to be a for profit health care whore huh?
For starters, please do not call me names such as whore. That is derogatory and has no place in this discussion. Furthermore I have stated on this forum that I support medicare for all, but not medicaid. Furthermore, your reply is made in such derogatory manner coupled with snide remarks, to me it only points to either your ignorance or for some odd reason that it is considered acceptable form of discussion.

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Originally Posted by Clara007 View Post
What loans are guaranteed loans?? Which loans have forgiveness clauses?? Let's see some links so we can discuss that more thoroughly.

My understanding is that guaranteed student loans are no longer available--since 2010. In any case, guaranteed student loans (if defaulted on) are taken over BY the government, giving the government the right to collect on that loan. Either way the loan is a LOAN not a gift. Even in a bankruptcy situation student loans are NOT forgiven. I suppose it's possible to go through the court system and have the loan forgiven, but extremely difficult and rare.
Forgiveness clauses? Sure. 1) Death 2) Bankruptcy through the courts, proving undue hardship 3) School closes/shuts down 4)Identity theft/fraud
5) Teachers who work for five years in a low-income designated district/public service

AND let's get something else straight. Tuition costs go up for the same reasons everything else goes up. Add to that the requirements needed in technology, professor's salaries, gutted state budgets, student support services, costs of utilities/building maintenance/housing/food......additional classes required for 21st century job markets.

Requirements for graduating have changed in the last 4-5 decades. The job market has shifted radically in recent decades, and employers now seek out graduates with hard skills that are in high demand: science, technology, engineering, math and health care. Students are encouraged to be bilingual--to travel--to expand their extracurriculars. Each one of these requirements raises the cost.
Your understanding is incorrect.
Quote:
Federal education loans offer students a distinct advantage over private lender loans in that they offer more attractive interest rates, more flexible repayment plans, and require no collateral for approval.
Student Loans Guaranteed by the Federal Government

Tuition costs will continue to rise as long as government agrees to keep paying for it. Its no different than 500.00 dollar hammers. Now, tell me of any other loan, that has no requirement for collateral or debt history, that contains get out of paying me clauses.
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Old June 26th, 2017, 10:44 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post
Work on your reading comprehension.
Your reply is mindlessly repeating the same rhetoric while ignoring the point that is being made.



And with that, you helped disprove any pretense that you knew what you were talking about.

You actually think the government pays for student loans?



Again, failure on reading comprehension on your part.
Medicare rates ARE LOWER, as the article specified.
Additionally, they found that emergency departments charged an average markup of 340 percent on Medicare allowable amounts.
Rates without Medicare saw a 340% markup ABOVE the Medicare rates.
My reading comprehension is fine, thank you very much. Your entire article is predicated on Medicare establishing the baseline for costs. Any questions or just more snide remarks?
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Old June 26th, 2017, 01:04 PM   #16
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Unfortunately that is a belief among many

I support medicare for all. Not Medicaid

For starters, please do not call me names such as whore. That is derogatory and has no place in this discussion. Furthermore I have stated on this forum that I support medicare for all, but not medicaid. Furthermore, your reply is made in such derogatory manner coupled with snide remarks, to me it only points to either your ignorance or for some odd reason that it is considered acceptable form of discussion.



Your understanding is incorrect.

Student Loans Guaranteed by the Federal Government

Tuition costs will continue to rise as long as government agrees to keep paying for it. Its no different than 500.00 dollar hammers. Now, tell me of any other loan, that has no requirement for collateral or debt history, that contains get out of paying me clauses.


AND you haven't provided a link.
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Old June 26th, 2017, 01:10 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by Clara007 View Post
AND you haven't provided a link.
I see the link clearly within my reply and it appears to work. Here it is again
Student Loans Guaranteed by the Federal Government
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Old June 26th, 2017, 05:25 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by goober View Post
In America, the state got involved involved in education beginning in 1635.
Are you saying that prior to 1635, education was better?
In 1635 higher education was paid for by donation.
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Old June 26th, 2017, 05:27 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by caconservative View Post
In 1635 higher education was paid for by donation.
That's not an answer to his question.
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Old June 27th, 2017, 01:37 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by goober View Post
Education and Health Care are not well suited to market solutions.
These are two areas where the government can do a better job for less money.

That is what all the data points to.
What data? If we are to use the ACA as an example, the government needs to be out of the healthcare business.
Open the insurance market up to interstate competition. Allow hospitals and doctors to advertise their own rates for care. And misuse of Tort law must be curtailed.
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