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Old July 20th, 2017, 05:58 PM   #121
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this thread has drifted off topic, but that happens. an observation, as a doctor and prescriber i often find myself in the position of wanting to prescribe something that will help this patient, but its off label, so i am "not allowed to do it".

but thats not the case. its not that its not allowed, its just that its not subsidised. i am entirely allowed to, and the patient is entirely allowed to have it. the issue is who will pay. that gets forgotten. sometimes i write off label scripts and advise the patient that its going to cost them more than the usual subsidised scripts, and often people are happy with that. sometimes i lie and make a diagnosis that i know is false, so that the patient gets subsidised medication they are "not entitled to". before you judge me as corrupt remember there is nothing in it for me, it doesnt earn me a cent, or cost me a cent, and every doctor does this from time to time, because the list of legal indications is stupid.

we forget. we merge the ideas. we think that being subsidised is the same thing as being legal, and the same thing as being right. but whether it is subsidised, legal, or the right thing to do are three entirely different and often unrelated issues.


I still stand by my belief that giving puberty blockers to a child because they may or may not have some sort of gender dysphoria is child abuse.
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Old July 20th, 2017, 06:11 PM   #122
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I still stand by my belief that giving puberty blockers to a child because they may or may not have some sort of gender dysphoria is child abuse.
i think you take it case by case. some children have clearly stated that they have the wrong body, that they are a girl and their boy body is the wrong one for them, or vice versa. and have said that clearly and consistently since the age of 3. for that child, intervening early, including stopping puberty does make sense. but thats rare, and rare situations should not define policy for everyone. for the 15 year old who says "i dont know, i am confused about sexuality and gender identity" then yeah, your fucking 15, its called puberty, you will get your head around it in the end. medications dont have a role.
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Old July 20th, 2017, 06:19 PM   #123
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i think you take it case by case. some children have clearly stated that they have the wrong body, that they are a girl and their boy body is the wrong one for them, or vice versa. and have said that clearly and consistently since the age of 3. for that child, intervening early, including stopping puberty does make sense. but thats rare, and rare situations should not define policy for everyone. for the 15 year old who says "i dont know, i am confused about sexuality and gender identity" then yeah, your fucking 15, its called puberty, you will get your head around it in the end. medications dont have a role.
Yeah, I agree w/ that wholeheartedly. Unfortunately that is not where we are being led.
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Old July 20th, 2017, 06:31 PM   #124
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Yeah, I agree w/ that wholeheartedly. Unfortunately that is not where we are being led.
i have teenage children who have a couple of trans friends. none of them are on hormones. none of them are planning surgery. for now its just different names and clothes. i suspect they will go back to their biological gender in time. i quietly refer to them with the term you coined - trans trender. i think it applies.

but thats australia. we tend to be socially conservative, and in particular the medical profession tends to be very conservative, and we watch the rest of the world experiment with medical fads and see which ones stick and which ones die before we adopt them. there is a saying in medicine 'never be the first doctor to try a new treatment, and never be the last doctor to abandon an old treatment'. australia is often the last doctor to abandon the old ways. thats probably not good, but when you are dealing with such important issues its better than jumping on board with every new trend.
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Old July 20th, 2017, 06:40 PM   #125
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i have teenage children who have a couple of trans friends. none of them are on hormones. none of them are planning surgery. for now its just different names and clothes. i suspect they will go back to their biological gender in time. i quietly refer to them with the term you coined - trans trender. i think it applies.

but thats australia. we tend to be socially conservative, and in particular the medical profession tends to be very conservative, and we watch the rest of the world experiment with medical fads and see which ones stick and which ones die before we adopt them. there is a saying in medicine 'never be the first doctor to try a new treatment, and never be the last doctor to abandon an old treatment'. australia is often the last doctor to abandon the old ways. thats probably not good, but when you are dealing with such important issues its better than jumping on board with every new trend.

I got the term from my teenage kids as that is apparently the term and I live in the progressive Mecca of the Midwest.

It is like the goth kids of the past, a fad for uncomfortable teens. I have no issue w/ it untill we have to start redesigning buildings or until we start putting them under the knife.

Once they become adults I could give a shit less what they do but I don't even think we should be giving children elective plastic surgery much less gender reassignment.
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Old February 3rd, 2018, 02:16 PM   #126
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This article is written by a Pediatrician and has many sources contained within it.

Iím a Pediatrician. How Transgender Ideology Has Infiltrated My Field and Produced Large-Scale Child Abuse.

...
Ah, but this one is not just a pediatrician. She's a (likely born-again) Christian, belonging to an association of pediatricians that is also born-again, & has an anti-gay, anti-lesbian, anti-homosexual & anti-homosexual adoptions of children & on & on agenda.

See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Americ..._Pediatricians

"This article is about the socially conservative advocacy group. For the major professional association, see American Academy of Pediatrics.

"American College of Pediatricians

"The American College of Pediatricians (ACPeds) is a socially conservative advocacy group of pediatricians and other healthcare professionals in the United States.[1] The group was founded in 2002 by a group of pediatricians, including Joseph Zanga, a past president of the American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP), as a protest against the AAP's support for adoption by gay couples.[2][3] The group's membership as of 2016 is estimated at 500 members.[4][5]

"ACPeds describes itself as "a national organization of pediatricians and other healthcare professionals dedicated to the health and well-being of children... committed to fulfilling its mission by producing sound policy, based upon the best available research, to assist parents and to influence society in the endeavor of childrearing."[6] Founder Joseph Zanga has described it as a group "with Judeo-Christian, traditional values that is open to pediatric medical professionals of all religions" provided that they "hold true to the group's core beliefs: that life begins at conception; and that the traditional family unit, headed by an opposite-sex couple, poses far fewer risk factors in the adoption and raising of children."[7]

"The organization's view on parenting differ from the position of the American Academy of Pediatrics, which holds that sexual orientation has no correlation with the ability to be a good parent and to raise healthy and well-adjusted children.[5][8][9] ACPeds has been listed as a hate group by the Southern Poverty Law Center for, in their words "propagating damaging falsehoods about LGBT people".[10][11] A number of mainstream researchers, including the director of the US National Institutes of Health, have accused the American College of Pediatricians (ACPeds) of misusing or mischaracterizing their work to advance ACPeds' political agenda.[2][12]"

(My emphasis - more @ the URL)

Especially interesting is the chart comparing this with the real organization - see the URL.

As I read this, I remember that we've dealt with ACPeds before, in some earlier incarnation.

I don't care to rely on ACPeds' work, no matter how many cites nor other trappings of actual science or medicine they may display. They have a mandate from God, & that mandate apparently allows them to do whatever is necessary to make sure God's team wins.
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Old February 3rd, 2018, 03:09 PM   #127
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More fact-checking

& of course this entire question of transgender ideology got a good-sized write-up from Snopes. See https://www.snopes.com/americas-pedi...s-gender-kids/

Which see - interesting reading.
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Old February 3rd, 2018, 03:55 PM   #128
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& of course this entire question of transgender ideology got a good-sized write-up from Snopes. See https://www.snopes.com/americas-pedi...s-gender-kids/

Which see - interesting reading.
The Indisputable Liberal Bias of Snopes


https://www.stormfront.org/forum/blogs/u227045-e3434/

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Old February 3rd, 2018, 04:24 PM   #129
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Begging the questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by hoosier88
& of course this entire question of transgender ideology got a good-sized write-up from Snopes. See https://www.snopes.com/americas-pedi...s-gender-kids/

Which see - interesting reading.

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The Indisputable Liberal Bias of Snopes

https://www.stormfront.org/forum/blogs/u227045-e3434/

Yah, so you quote Stormfront as a rejoinder. Except that the article doesn't talk abut transgender @ all. I can see that they're not happy with Snopes. How is that an adequate response to the points Snopes raised about transgender ideology, & Glenn Beck's take on the topic, & American College of Pediatricians?
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Old February 3rd, 2018, 04:36 PM   #130
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hoosier88
& of course this entire question of transgender ideology got a good-sized write-up from Snopes. See https://www.snopes.com/americas-pedi...s-gender-kids/

Which see - interesting reading.



Yah, so you quote Stormfront as a rejoinder. Except that the article doesn't talk abut transgender @ all. I can see that they're not happy with Snopes. How is that an adequate response to the points Snopes raised about transgender ideology, & Glenn Beck's take on the topic, & American College of Pediatricians?

Th3y are about equally biased, though stormfront is up front about its perceived bias whereas snopes just lies by omission. Regardless neither "article" has any real influence on the thread. IMO just posting other peoples opinions on other peoples opinions is kinda silly at this point in the thread especially as resurrection posts
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