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Old July 6th, 2017, 03:31 AM   #11
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The morning after pill is not abortion
Abortion at 8 months for no other reason than "choice" is murder.
At some point and time the Supreme court is going to have to come up with a ruling on the viability of life and decide when a fetus is now a child. To say it occurs at conception is wacko. To say never is nuts.

None of this has anything at all to do with this thread.
That is fine I will delete the post
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Old July 6th, 2017, 03:40 AM   #12
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Sorry.

Can't accept anything as "absolute fact" that is written by a writer for for The American Heritage Foundation.

Any organization whose mission goal is "Bringing you the best conservative policy" is not an organization whose views on transgenderism I'm going to take with much more than a grain of salt.
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Old July 6th, 2017, 07:18 AM   #13
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this article isnt "proof". its one side of an argument. much of this side of the argument is overstated and misrepresented as has been discussed previously here and elsewhere. thats why those following this argument are the minority and those who understand the reality of transgender people are the majority.

however, its probably the case that transgenderism is over diagnosed and overtreated. its probably true that activists have overplayed their hand, what is a rare exception is being presented as the new norm. and its probably the case that normal adolescent angst is medicalised where it should just be left to sort itself out. all of this is the case with depression, ADHD, bipolar disorder.
The article seems pretty confined to discussing transgender children and giving them puberty suppression medications. Seems like it has some pretty good sources. It did not strike me as anti-trans choice. I am waiting for someone to see the correlation between big pharma and its hormone therapy sales diminishing since women no longer take them for menopause. Then the correlation and rise in trans male to female where you have to take them for life. Seems suspicious to me.
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Old July 6th, 2017, 01:23 PM   #14
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“The money is flowing” to “suck people in:” Vaginoplasty & the case of Jazz Jennings

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Social media has been abuzz the last few days with the release of a trailer advertising the upcoming third season of “I Am Jazz.” It’s only a two-minute clip, but it packs a wallop. We see Jazz crying while saying “I just really hate myself” which is intense enough (given Jazz’s admission in the prior season of being suicidally depressed). But the big news is Jazz’s desire to seek bottom surgery. In the trailer, we see Jazz in three different doctors’ offices. The news isn’t good.

Doctor #1: You’re about to turn 16 so…I think it’s feasible that you could have bottom surgery.

Doctor #2 : We’re just now getting children who have been on puberty blocking hormones. When it comes to the surgery, we don’t have the raw materials we need.

Doctor #3: Testosterone suppression did you two big favors here (gestures at his chest, pantomiming breasts) but it didn’t do you any favors “down there.”

Doc two big favors

The benefits & drawbacks of blocking testosterone

The “raw materials” down there are, of course, the child-like male genitals Jazz would have, having been on puberty blockers (since age 10) and estrogen (since at least age 12), according to the first episode of “I Am Jazz” in Season 1. The most commonly performed procedure in the United States to create a facsimile of female genitalia, called “one-stage penile inversion” is more complicated and requires more steps when the male genitalia are the size of a prepubescent child.

A prior 4thWaveNow post, “Age is Just a Number,” touched on a few points from an April 2017 article in the Journal of Sexual Medicine co-authored by gender therapist Christine Milrod and USPATH head and UCSF gender psychiatrist Dan Karasic, which discussed exactly Jazz’s situation: “bottom surgery” for minor boys. The prior post emphasized some surgeons’ belief that minors should have the procedure done while still in high school so that their parents can ensure compliance; even be “active” in the dilation routine required to keep the neovagina open to “maintain the vaginal depth involved” before the teen becomes distracted by college.

But there is much more to say about not only the surgeons who operate on minors, but also those who recommend SRS for puberty-blocked preadolescents.

Of the 20 (anonymous) surgeons surveyed in the Milrod-Karasic article, 11 admitted to operating on boys under the age of 18. Unless Jazz seeks the procedure overseas, it’s highly likely it will be one of these surgeons who will do Jazz’s “bottom surgery,” should it take place before age 18.

From the get-go, co-authors Christine Milrod and Dan Karasic make clear that the growing trend of operating on minors is out of compliance with the current WPATH Standards of Care (SOC 7). But it’s evident from this and other writings that Milrod and Karasic –both proponents of “affirmative gender care” for minors—are interested in changing those standards for the next version (SOC . And they are not alone; lowering the age for genital surgery is a very popular topic among top gender clinicians like Johanna Olson-Kennedy and others.

Who are these 11 surgeons? Not even one has ever published on the issue:

The surgeons who perform the procedure on transgender minors have, without exception, refrained from publishing any peer-reviewed outcome data or technical articles on this small but increasingly important population….

…When asked about the lack of published data on surgery in minors, most participants asserted that GCS in all age groups had been a very small part of surgical medicine until very recently and that data on large volumes of procedures were not yet available. Some also cited the perceived “taboo” or outright stigma in performing the surgery and therefore a certain reluctance to share results or specific techniques.

But there are a few surgeons (whether they are part of the group surveyed for this article, we don’t know) who have been featured in news articles about genital surgeries on males under the age of 18. One of them, cited by Milrod and Karasic in a footnote, is Dr. Gary Alter, who in 2014 performed vaginoplasty on a 16-year-old.

Alter surgery

Dr. Gary Alter first removed the testicles and inserted a tissue expander (similar to an internal balloon) in the scrotum several months prior to the final sex change. The expander was progressively filled with fluid through a port during several follow-up visits in order to stretch the scrotal skin and yield enough skin as a graft to line the neovagina. The expander thus enabled the patient to avoid taking skin harvested from the flanks with the resulting unsightly scars. After 2.5 months, the expander was removed during the vaginoplasty and clitoral creation.

Just as Jazz’s doctors said: without the necessary “raw material” of a mature penis and scrotum, surgical fashioning of an approximation of female genitalia requires some rejiggering.

Interestingly, the article about Dr. Alter tells us that the 16-year-old’s psychotherapist was none other than Christine Milrod. who penned a piece “How Young is Too Young” in the Journal of Sexual Medicine in 2014. In it, Milrod argues for new guidelines that would allow underage surgeries on a “case-by-case basis.
CONTINUED
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Old July 6th, 2017, 01:24 PM   #15
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Professionals across disciplines treating female-affirmed adolescents can utilize the proposed ethical guidelines to facilitate decision making on a case-by-case basis to protect both patients and practitioners. These guidelines may also be used in support of more open discussions and disclosures of surgical results that could further the advancement of treatment in this emerging population.

“This emerging population”—male minors seeking genital surgeries.

Gary Alter is not the only one who has performed vaginoplasty on underage males. This 2015 New York Times piece features another surgeon, Dr. Christine McGinn (a late transitioning, former military MD):

Several doctors said they had performed surgery on minors. Kat’s surgeon, Dr. Christine McGinn, estimated that she had done more than 30 operations on children under 18, about half of them vaginoplasties for biological boys becoming girls, and the other half double mastectomies for girls becoming boys.

.. Kat’s parents trusted her not only as a specialist, but also as a role model: She had been a dashing male doctor in the Navy, before becoming a beautiful female doctor in civilian life.

When questioning the ethics involved in performing risky, irreversible, sterilizing surgeries on people too young to give informed consent, it’s easy to point the finger only at the surgeons. But as is made abundantly clear in the Milrod-Karasic article, it is psychotherapists like Christine Milrod who are heavily relied upon by the surgeons to make the correct referrals. No minor simply walks into a surgeon’s office to ask for SRS without first being referred by a gender therapist.~snip~
More: https://4thwavenow.com/2017/04/03/th...jazz-jennings/
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Last edited by imaginethat; February 3rd, 2018 at 12:56 AM.
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Old July 6th, 2017, 02:17 PM   #16
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The article seems pretty confined to discussing transgender children and giving them puberty suppression medications.
Seems like it has some pretty good sources.
I really hate how the right butchers truth and honesty in such discussions.
They talk about things like they're an endorsed practice, when the truth is something else entirely different.
It is important to understand that, for children who have not reached puberty, gender transition involves no medical interventions at all: it consists of social changes like name, pronoun and gender expression
https://www.aap.org/en-us/Documents/...erchildren.pdf

Too often on these topics, the right-wing political resources are more focused on presenting a false image of what is going on and endorsed rather than putting forth an honest and truthful picture...
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Old July 6th, 2017, 03:54 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by guy39 View Post
The article seems pretty confined to discussing transgender children and giving them puberty suppression medications.
we must have read different articles. the one posted here addressed much more than that.
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Seems like it has some pretty good sources.
it doesnt cite ANY sources.
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It did not strike me as anti-trans choice.
this article is entirely hostile to the notion of anyone being trans.
Quote:
I am waiting for someone to see the correlation between big pharma and its hormone therapy sales diminishing since women no longer take them for menopause. Then the correlation and rise in trans male to female where you have to take them for life. Seems suspicious to me.
nope. this is academia, no drug money in play.
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Old July 6th, 2017, 06:54 PM   #18
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I really hate how the right butchers truth and honesty in such discussions.
They talk about things like they're an endorsed practice, when the truth is something else entirely different.
It is important to understand that, for children who have not reached puberty, gender transition involves no medical interventions at all: it consists of social changes like name, pronoun and gender expression
https://www.aap.org/en-us/Documents/...erchildren.pdf

Too often on these topics, the right-wing political resources are more focused on presenting a false image of what is going on and endorsed rather than putting forth an honest and truthful picture...
It is an endorsed practice. Or, actually its an endorsed experiment. On children. Just start researching it. Rather its pro or con they have one thing in common. They both use the phrase we dont know yet...
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Old July 6th, 2017, 06:58 PM   #19
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we must have read different articles. the one posted here addressed much more than that.

it doesnt cite ANY sources.

this article is entirely hostile to the notion of anyone being trans.

nope. this is academia, no drug money in play.
I stopped counting at 11 linked sources within the article. It requires you to actually click the link and read it. Here is the link
I?m a Pediatrician. How Transgender Ideology Has Infiltrated My Field and Produced Large-Scale Child Abuse.
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Old July 6th, 2017, 07:16 PM   #20
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"boy" is the new "girl" and "girl" is the new "boy." Put your lipstick on and deal with it.
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