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Old February 27th, 2008, 07:57 AM   #1
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Universal Health Care

I can't understand why anyone would be against universal health care. As Thomas Carlyle once said, "A great man shows his greatness in the way he treats little men." Likewise, a great nation shows its greatness in the way it treats its weakest and poorest.



If universal health care is at all feasible, of course we should make it a reality! Who would say that taking care of our nation's weakest and poorest is a bad thing?



However, the question of course is whether it would be feasible. We could provide at least a low level of health care to all citizens without killing our national budget. However, with our national deficit skyrocketing and our economy at risk of a recession, even that might prove the straw that broke the camel's back.



We need to fix the economy first, but I think once we do that we should definitely pursue a universal health care system.



To put it briefly, I think our economy could be fixed by 4 simple reforms:



1-Protect American jobs by exiting free trade pacts like NAFTA and the World Trade Organization. Set a tariff system based on the difference between our national minimum wage and the minimum wages of other countries, to create a level playing field for American companies. This way companies can't get away with outsourcing jobs and moving factories to places like China and Mexico where labor is cheaper.



2-Make American companies competitive by placing caps on how much CEO's and managers can be paid above the average worker. American companies Ford and GM are outsourcing labor with the excuse that they can't compete using higher-priced American workers, but Japanese company Toyota is creating more and more plants here in the U.S. and is prospering because they don't pay their management exorbitant sums of money.



3-Fix the housing crisis by enacting legislation that will protect American homeowners from fraudulent lending practices like ARM's and also require lenders to present info to buyers showing what each of the payment plans will cost as compared to the original price. Create a law where buyers paying 200% of any object's original cost instantly are credited as "Paid in Full". A profit of as much again as something costs should be satisfactory for any seller and they should not be able to drag out homeowners year after year on interest costs alone.



4-Reduce the major source of government spending: our military. Withdraw troops from both Iraq and Afghanistan, effective immediately. Withdraw them as fact as our economy can support them returning, and leave only a 5% contingent to guard to-be-created heavily defensive outposts near areas key to the securities of said countries, like oil fields, government offices, major schools and hospitals, etc. Focus on protecting our own borders and begin withdrawing troops stationed around the world.
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Old February 27th, 2008, 04:42 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jzyehoshua
I can't understand why anyone would be against universal health care. As Thomas Carlyle once said, "A great man shows his greatness in the way he treats little men." Likewise, a great nation shows its greatness in the way it treats its weakest and poorest.



If universal health care is at all feasible, of course we should make it a reality! Who would say that taking care of our nation's weakest and poorest is a bad thing?



Mostly right wing evangelicals and compassionate conservatives who boast "family values".











However, the question of course is whether it would be feasible. We could provide at least a low level of health care to all citizens without killing our national budget. However, with our national deficit skyrocketing and our economy at risk of a recession, even that might prove the straw that broke the camel's back.




I doubt it. Even Cuba manages to provide universal health care.



When you consider the colossal hidden costs of the current broken system, which is focussed on maintaining a profitable, parallel insurance industry rather than providing everyone with health care, there is ample finance available.



The US spends 17% of its GDP on health care - more than any other industrialised nation - yet still fails to provide health care to 47m uninsured and millions more under-insured.





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Old March 8th, 2008, 03:23 PM   #3
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America is still reactionary about Universal care because it sounds "socialistic."



So fucking what? It works.



I've lived without health insurance since 2003. It's no picnic.
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Old March 9th, 2008, 07:31 AM   #4
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The reason America doesn't embrace universal health care is because nobody cares about the people who can't afford health insurance. If you can't afford health insurance on your own, or through your employer, you're really not important enough to be bothered about.



Who gives a shit if some poor slob who earns $22,000 a year hanging drywall can afford health insurance? If he gets cancer and dies, there are plenty more drywall hangers to do the job. Besides, the illegal Mexicans will do the job for a fraction of the price anyway.



Ahh, there are some middle class having dificulty affording that insurance too. Well, they better find a way spot it on, because, guess what, nobody cares about them either.



Smiling democratic politicians, who happen to be rich, will be more than happy to tell you about how much they care about the masses who can't afford health insurance. Of course, at the end of the day, they don't give a shit either.



Can't afford health insurance? You're fucked! You want to know the funny part? Nobody gives a rip shit. If you don't have money, then shut the fuck up!
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Old March 9th, 2008, 07:33 AM   #5
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The reason America doesn't embrace universal health care is because nobody cares about the people who can't afford health insurance. If you can't afford health insurance on your own, or through your employer, you're really not important enough to be bothered about.



Who gives a shit if some poor slob who earns $22,000 a year hanging drywall can afford health insurance? If he gets cancer and dies, there are plenty more drywall hangers to do the job. Besides, the illegal Mexicans will do the job for a fraction of the price anyway.



Ahh, there are some middle class having dificulty affording that insurance too. Well, they better find a way spot it on, because, guess what, nobody cares about them either.



Smiling democratic politicians, who happen to be rich, will be more than happy to tell you about how much they care about the masses who can't afford health insurance. Of course, at the end of the day, they don't give a shit either.



Can't afford health insurance? You're fucked! You want to know the funny part? Nobody gives a rip shit. If you don't have money, then shut the fuck up!
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Old March 9th, 2008, 10:36 AM   #6
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I guess it bore repeating huh PN?
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Old March 10th, 2008, 06:41 AM   #7
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I guess it bore repeating huh PN?
Perhaps. Americans need to get over the concept that anybody really cares about them. The only reason you even have insurance in the first place is because a lot of lawyers got rich seeing that it is available to you. If you really think anybody truly cares about your health and well being, you are living in fantasy land. They would only provide you health coverage because, given the option of getting sued, it makes better financial sense. It's all about money and nothing else.
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Old April 8th, 2008, 02:38 PM   #8
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ok,



1. Healthcare isn't free. Even if the government takes over the Healthcare industry, it's NOT free.



2. Government has a bad habit of mismanaging anything it touches. Prices go up, quality goes down. Example? DMV



3. The issue isn't about caring. I care about a lot of things, I don't think the government should "force" my neighbor to pitch in for it. If I believe in it enough I'll pay for it, try to raise money for it and ask people to donate.
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Old April 9th, 2008, 06:41 AM   #9
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i hope there is some american sarcasm or humour that i have missed in some of these posts.....



something that the good citizens of america need to consider when it comes to universal health insurance:



why does every other western country have universal health insurance?



why are your arguments disregarded everywhere else in the world?



why is the delivery of health care cheaper in every other country and more expensive in the USA?



why do you accept universal provision of other services (schooling, policing, transport, military protection, and others) but say it is "communist" when it is applied to health care?



do any of you think that your current system of health care delivery is a good one?
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Old April 9th, 2008, 07:04 AM   #10
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Dragon, I do have health insurance. Even with the high cost of health care, coupled with the high gas prices, I sort of have to make fewer trips to see the doctor at this point.



My insurance is PPO, but I really don't favor HMOs, as in my opinion it can be bureaucratic red tape kind of insurance. My PPO is a good one, BTW.
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