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Old August 17th, 2010, 01:38 PM   #11
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i appreciate your perspective. but thats not so here. if you are paid in cash, then you are NOT usually paying payroll taxes. and you can't file income taxes without a SSN or TIN if you're a NRA or RA. and using a SSN that is not yours or not in your name is illegal and thus fits my definition of being illegal or using the system illegally. thats what i was getting at as far as being "legal". which granted a lot of US citizens don't comply either. thats the misconception for my side of the country is that illegal citizens ARE paying taxes when for all practical purposes they don't. i'm not talking about the sales tax on items at walmart or gas either. federal and state income taxes go to social security and other programs that they are not paying for. schools for children born here that other tax payers are paying to educate. i just went to the ER recently and have "an ability to pay" even without health insurance. where does the hospital send the ER bill to someone they are required to treat, but cannot pay now or in the future - who is here illegally and doesn't give honest info? its wonderful to want to help everyone. but who is going to pay for it? as our country stands right now at both the fed and state level - we cannot afford it anymore. the government is in debt, our states are so broke they are forcing employees to take unpaid days off or face layoffs. police forces can't fund their payroll. schools are closing or cutting programs. librarys have less open hours/days. california is worse off than us in Arizona but we aren't that far behind. we had to issue IOU's for income tax refunds too. its a numbers thing. our law enforcement in AZ is so burdened by the illegal problem its not even funny. and to have no teeth to the laws? just drive them back to mexico only to have them return sometimes within 24 hours? its ridiculous. and the fed won't help. 524 guardsmen when we need 3,000 border patrol agents? that is a slap in the face.



i don't have the answer. but SOMETHING has to be done. and done soon.
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Old August 17th, 2010, 01:38 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by CrazyFlamingos
Many of them around here are on payroll. (I live in chicken growing country.) I assume they are using phony or stolen S-S-Numbers.



The stolen numbers can create some serious issues for the real owners of those numbers. At any rate, sooner or later soomeone will reap the benefits or pay the penalties for the extra income on those numbers.



But I assume that those paying with a phony number can kiss that money goodbye forever since filing for refunds or Social Security would surely out them to the Federal Government.




Exactly. They cannot reap the benefits of paying into Social Security or Medicare or anything else.
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Old August 17th, 2010, 01:39 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by waitingtables
Exactly. They cannot reap the benefits of paying into Social Security or Medicare or anything else.




Poor babies.



Why the hell should they reap the benefits if they are here illegally?



In practice II's reap all kinds of other benefits from American taxpayers.





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Old August 17th, 2010, 01:40 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by lei_4_sb1070
i appreciate your perspective. but thats not so here. if you are paid in cash, then you are NOT usually paying payroll taxes. and you can't file income taxes without a SSN or TIN if you're a NRA or RA. and using a SSN that is not yours or not in your name is illegal and thus fits my definition of being illegal or using the system illegally. thats what i was getting at as far as being "legal". which granted a lot of US citizens don't comply either. thats the misconception for my side of the country is that illegal citizens ARE paying taxes when for all practical purposes they don't. i'm not talking about the sales tax on items at walmart or gas either. federal and state income taxes go to social security and other programs that they are not paying for. schools for children born here that other tax payers are paying to educate. i just went to the ER recently and have "an ability to pay" even without health insurance. where does the hospital send the ER bill to someone they are required to treat, but cannot pay now or in the future - who is here illegally and doesn't give honest info? its wonderful to want to help everyone. but who is going to pay for it? as our country stands right now at both the fed and state level - we cannot afford it anymore. the government is in debt, our states are so broke they are forcing employees to take unpaid days off or face layoffs. police forces can't fund their payroll. schools are closing or cutting programs. librarys have less open hours/days. california is worse off than us in Arizona but we aren't that far behind. we had to issue IOU's for income tax refunds too. its a numbers thing. our law enforcement in AZ is so burdened by the illegal problem its not even funny. and to have no teeth to the laws? just drive them back to mexico only to have them return sometimes within 24 hours? its ridiculous. and the fed won't help. 524 guardsmen when we need 3,000 border patrol agents? that is a slap in the face.



i don't have the answer. but SOMETHING has to be done. and done soon.


I am not defending illegal immigration or saying that it isn't bad in Arizona right now. But it is happening there and everywhere else that illegal immigrants are working. They use fake names or fake SS#'s and they pay taxes on their income.
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Old August 17th, 2010, 01:41 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by waitingtables
Some more info about the undocumented immigrants and the taxes that they pay. This is just a portion of the article. i provided a link if anyone wants to read the rest of it.



t r u t h o u t | Undocumented Immigrants Pay More in Taxes Than They Receive in Benefits:


i can quote stats to the contrary. but the "national average" is swayed. Iowa doesn't see the same illegal immigrant problem or bear the same cost as say we do in Arizona. so that right there is meaningless to those of us in this area. you don't have armed illegal immigrants in seattle. we do. are border patrol agents under gunfire in your state? there are here.
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Old August 17th, 2010, 01:42 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by garysher

Poor babies.



Why the hell should they reap the benefits if they are here illegally?



In practice II's reap all kinds of other benefits from American taxpayers.








I wasn't commentating on the state of the illegal immigrants well being. Merely that the facts support that many of them, around 8 million, are paying payroll taxes, Social Security taxes, medicare taxes and sales taxes. So to claim that they are sucking our system dry is just bunk.
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Old August 17th, 2010, 01:44 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by lei_4_sb1070
i can quote stats to the contrary. but the "national average" is swayed. Iowa doesn't see the same illegal immigrant problem or bear the same cost as say we do in Arizona. so that right there is meaningless to those of us in this area. you don't have armed illegal immigrants in seattle. we do. are border patrol agents under gunfire in your state? there are here.


None of that has anything to do with what I was talking about. And I would like to see those stats that claim that illegals aren't paying into our system.
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Old August 17th, 2010, 01:45 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by waitingtables
I wasn't commentating on the state of the illegal immigrants well being. Merely that the facts support that many of them, around 8 million, are paying payroll taxes, Social Security taxes, medicare taxes and sales taxes. So to claim that they are sucking our system dry is just bunk.




I would like to see those stats that claim that illegals are paying into our system.
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Old August 17th, 2010, 01:45 PM   #19
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"They cannot reap the benefits of paying into Social Security or Medicare or anything else"



because they are here ILLEGALLY! and you aren't accounting for the scores of people who DO use the "system" and aren't using false identification to pay payroll taxes. or the moms who have babies here on welfare, medi-cal, etc. or the ones who are schooling their children in our schools at our expense, not theirs! or the scores of people arrested for major or petty crimes that have "rights" here that have to be addressed by our legal system which again, they aren't paying for!
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Old August 17th, 2010, 01:46 PM   #20
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it certainly has everything to do with what I am talking about!
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