Political Forums  

Go Back   Defending The Truth Political Forum > Political Issues > Immigration

Immigration Immigration Political Forum - For topics and discussions about illegal immigrants and immigrant rights


Thanks Tree29Thanks
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old January 31st, 2017, 12:27 PM   #1
Senior Member
 
imaginethat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Western Slope, Colorado
Posts: 56,707
Ron Paul: A Better Solution Than A Border Wall

Still making sense, still being roundly ignored....

Ron Paul: A Better Solution Than A Border Wall


Just one week in office, President Donald Trump is already following through on his pledge to address illegal immigration. His January 25th executive order called for the construction of a wall along the entire length of the U.S.-Mexico border. While he is right to focus on the issue, there are several reasons why his proposed solution will unfortunately not lead us anywhere closer to solving the problem.

First, the wall will not work. Texas already started building a border fence about ten years ago. It divided people from their own property across the border, it deprived people of their land through the use of eminent domain, and in the end the problem of drug and human smuggling was not solved.

Second, the wall will be expensive. The wall is estimated to cost between 12 and 15 billion dollars. You can bet it will be more than that. President Trump has claimed that if the Mexican government doesn’t pay for it, he will impose a 20 percent duty on products imported from Mexico. Who will pay this tax? Ultimately, the American consumer, as the additional costs will be passed on. This will of course hurt the poorest Americans the most.

Third, building a wall ignores the real causes of illegal border crossings into the United States. Though President Trump is right to prioritize the problem of border security, he misses the point on how it can be done effectively and at an actual financial benefit to the country rather than a huge economic drain.

The solution to really addressing the problem of illegal immigration, drug smuggling, and the threat of cross-border terrorism is clear: Remove the welfare magnet that attracts so many to cross the border illegally, stop the 25 year U.S. war in the Middle East, and end the drug war that incentivizes smugglers to cross the border.

The various taxpayer-funded programs that benefit illegal immigrants in the United States, such as direct financial transfers, medical benefits, food assistance, and education, cost an estimated $100 billion dollars per year. That is a significant burden on citizens and legal residents. The promise of free money, free food, free education, and free medical care if you cross the border illegally is a powerful incentive for people to do so. It especially makes no sense for the United States government to provide these services to those who are not in the U.S. legally.

Likewise, the 40-year war on drugs has produced no benefit to the American people at a great cost. It is estimated that since President Nixon declared a war on drugs, the U.S. has spent more than a trillion dollars to fight what is a losing battle. That is because just as with the welfare magnet, there is an enormous incentive to smuggle drugs into the United States.

We already know the effect that ending the war on drugs has on illegal smuggling: as more and more U.S. states decriminalize marijuana for medical and recreational uses, marijuana smuggling from Mexico to the U.S. has dropped by 50 percent from 2010.

Finally, the threat of terrorists crossing into the United States from Mexico must be taken seriously, however once again we must soberly consider why they may seek to do us harm. We have been dropping bombs on the Middle East since at least 1990. Last year President Barack Obama dropped more than 26,000 bombs. Thousands of civilians have been killed in US drone attacks. The grand U.S. plan to “remake” the Middle East has produced only misery, bloodshed, and terrorism. Ending this senseless intervention will go a long way toward removing the incentive to attack the United States.

I believe it is important for the United States to have secure borders, but unfortunately President Trump’s plan to build a wall will end up costing a fortune while ignoring the real problem of why people cross the borders illegally. They will keep coming as long as those incentives remain.
https://www.fitsnews.com/2017/01/30/...a-border-wall/
Thanks from Sabcat, Hollywood, Pilgrim and 1 others
imaginethat is online now  
Old January 31st, 2017, 12:57 PM   #2
Senior Member
 
BubbaJones's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Middle Tennessee
Posts: 6,476
I'm not a big fan of Ron Paul but he's not wrong on this one. The only thing he left out was aggressive persecution of companies that hire illegals.

Welfare, drug trade and JOBS are the three magnets. Take those away, and the problem will solve itself.
Thanks from nuttyjoe, imaginethat and skews13
BubbaJones is offline  
Old January 31st, 2017, 01:17 PM   #3
Banned
 
excalibur's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: The Milky Way
Posts: 24,581
Progs will never vote to stop welfare benefits to illegals. And SCOTUS, thanks to Progs, insists that children of illegals get public schooling. I can see Schumer crying now. So while it may be a "better" solution, it cannot be worked now, so either the wall or the same as we've been doing for decades. We cannot continue the same.

And I expect President Trump to enforce all the laws already on the books, once the slimy Democrats get around to showing up at the Judiciary Committee so a vote can be held to send Jeff Sessions to a floor vote and approval as AG.


excalibur is offline  
Old January 31st, 2017, 04:04 PM   #4
Senior Member
 
imaginethat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Western Slope, Colorado
Posts: 56,707
Quote:
Originally Posted by excalibur View Post
Progs will never vote to stop welfare benefits to illegals. And SCOTUS, thanks to Progs, insists that children of illegals get public schooling. I can see Schumer crying now. So while it may be a "better" solution, it cannot be worked now, so either the wall or the same as we've been doing for decades. We cannot continue the same.

And I expect President Trump to enforce all the laws already on the books, once the slimy Democrats get around to showing up at the Judiciary Committee so a vote can be held to send Jeff Sessions to a floor vote and approval as AG.
Oh sure, put up a wall and criminals driven by huge profits will just sit around drinking cervezas reminiscing about the good ol' days before the hijo de puta Señor Trump built hees stinking wall.
The Galvez tunnel was discovered in 2009. It was dug from a warehouse that we can see just beyond the border fence and extended about 760 feet to the north toward another warehouse on the US side of the border.

LeNoir said the tunnel was never fully completed, but it speaks to the ingenuity and brute strength used to dig these tunnels under the border walls. The tunnel was cut through jagged rock and measured about 6 feet tall and 4 feet wide.

"They (drug smugglers) are looking for bulk transport," LeNoir said.

This tunnel was equipped with a rail system and electricity. The agent says the tunnels are usually used to move massive loads of marijuana and cocaine. "We recognize digging crews," he said. "They all have their unique shape, size and little nuances that you pick up."

Juan Munoz, Homeland Security investigations special agent, says in the last 10 years nearly 30 tunnels have been discovered in the San Diego area alone.

Munoz says these tunnels are usually found connecting between commercial warehouses, but that to discover these tunnels requires intense investigative work and intelligence information.

"They will continue to go on between the Mexican and US border," Munoz said. "If there's a way that these drug trafficking organizations can stay undetected, and it's by tunneling, they will."

LeNoir says the tunnels have grown more sophisticated as border security above ground as become more elaborate and extensive.

"This is usually high dollar-high risk reward enterprise," Lenoir said. "It's a lot of stuff that they have to move in a small amount of time."

But as the arsenal of border security tools has grown and appears that it will grow even larger during the Trump administration, border residents worry about the toll this will take on their communities.
California-Mexico border: An ever-changing border - CNNPolitics.com

You boys are so funny. If they can move tons of Cocaine and Marywana, just what else might they be importing?
Thanks from Sabcat

Last edited by imaginethat; January 31st, 2017 at 04:07 PM.
imaginethat is online now  
Old January 31st, 2017, 04:11 PM   #5
Senior Member
 
Clara007's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Arizona
Posts: 7,859
Quote:
Originally Posted by imaginethat View Post
Still making sense, still being roundly ignored....

Ron Paul: A Better Solution Than A Border Wall


Just one week in office, President Donald Trump is already following through on his pledge to address illegal immigration. His January 25th executive order called for the construction of a wall along the entire length of the U.S.-Mexico border. While he is right to focus on the issue, there are several reasons why his proposed solution will unfortunately not lead us anywhere closer to solving the problem.

First, the wall will not work. Texas already started building a border fence about ten years ago. It divided people from their own property across the border, it deprived people of their land through the use of eminent domain, and in the end the problem of drug and human smuggling was not solved.

Second, the wall will be expensive. The wall is estimated to cost between 12 and 15 billion dollars. You can bet it will be more than that. President Trump has claimed that if the Mexican government doesn’t pay for it, he will impose a 20 percent duty on products imported from Mexico. Who will pay this tax? Ultimately, the American consumer, as the additional costs will be passed on. This will of course hurt the poorest Americans the most.

Third, building a wall ignores the real causes of illegal border crossings into the United States. Though President Trump is right to prioritize the problem of border security, he misses the point on how it can be done effectively and at an actual financial benefit to the country rather than a huge economic drain.

The solution to really addressing the problem of illegal immigration, drug smuggling, and the threat of cross-border terrorism is clear: Remove the welfare magnet that attracts so many to cross the border illegally, stop the 25 year U.S. war in the Middle East, and end the drug war that incentivizes smugglers to cross the border.

The various taxpayer-funded programs that benefit illegal immigrants in the United States, such as direct financial transfers, medical benefits, food assistance, and education, cost an estimated $100 billion dollars per year. That is a significant burden on citizens and legal residents. The promise of free money, free food, free education, and free medical care if you cross the border illegally is a powerful incentive for people to do so. It especially makes no sense for the United States government to provide these services to those who are not in the U.S. legally.

Likewise, the 40-year war on drugs has produced no benefit to the American people at a great cost. It is estimated that since President Nixon declared a war on drugs, the U.S. has spent more than a trillion dollars to fight what is a losing battle. That is because just as with the welfare magnet, there is an enormous incentive to smuggle drugs into the United States.

We already know the effect that ending the war on drugs has on illegal smuggling: as more and more U.S. states decriminalize marijuana for medical and recreational uses, marijuana smuggling from Mexico to the U.S. has dropped by 50 percent from 2010.

Finally, the threat of terrorists crossing into the United States from Mexico must be taken seriously, however once again we must soberly consider why they may seek to do us harm. We have been dropping bombs on the Middle East since at least 1990. Last year President Barack Obama dropped more than 26,000 bombs. Thousands of civilians have been killed in US drone attacks. The grand U.S. plan to “remake” the Middle East has produced only misery, bloodshed, and terrorism. Ending this senseless intervention will go a long way toward removing the incentive to attack the United States.

I believe it is important for the United States to have secure borders, but unfortunately President Trump’s plan to build a wall will end up costing a fortune while ignoring the real problem of why people cross the borders illegally. They will keep coming as long as those incentives remain.
https://www.fitsnews.com/2017/01/30/...a-border-wall/

Wow. The voice of reason?? Something we haven't heard in a LONG LONG time.
Clara007 is offline  
Old January 31st, 2017, 04:16 PM   #6
Senior Member
 
Clara007's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Arizona
Posts: 7,859
Quote:
Originally Posted by excalibur View Post
Progs will never vote to stop welfare benefits to illegals. And SCOTUS, thanks to Progs, insists that children of illegals get public schooling. I can see Schumer crying now. So while it may be a "better" solution, it cannot be worked now, so either the wall or the same as we've been doing for decades. We cannot continue the same.

And I expect President Trump to enforce all the laws already on the books, once the slimy Democrats get around to showing up at the Judiciary Committee so a vote can be held to send Jeff Sessions to a floor vote and approval as AG.



Was that an excuse I heard?? "The Progs will never vote to stop welfare"??
Why are you concerned about Progs?? You've got the world by a string, my friend. You've got the Senate, the House and the Presidency. Your team has the opportunity to giveth and taketh away. Go for it. Here's your chance.
Don't school those immigrant children. That will SHOW THEM. Don't send them food stamps. Don't offer healthcare or emergency room services. Take it all away. Scoot. Get busy.
I can't wait to see how it all works out.
Thanks from imaginethat
Clara007 is offline  
Old January 31st, 2017, 05:23 PM   #7
Senior Member
 
nuttyjoe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Wilmette. Illinois
Posts: 3,867
Quote:
Originally Posted by BubbaJones View Post
I'm not a big fan of Ron Paul but he's not wrong on this one. The only thing he left out was aggressive persecution of companies that hire illegals.

Welfare, drug trade and JOBS are the three magnets. Take those away, and the problem will solve itself.
Also not a big fan of Rand Paul. I don't see welfare as a magnet, but I have on many occasions called for the aggressive prosecution of companies and their officers who continually flout illegal hiring laws.
I truly believe that as soon as we start perp walking a few bigwigs on national television in handcuffs and leg irons into federal court, and out of court into a penitentiary to be housed in general population, we can truly start to get a handle on this issue.
nuttyjoe is offline  
Old January 31st, 2017, 05:26 PM   #8
Senior Member
 
imaginethat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Western Slope, Colorado
Posts: 56,707
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clara007 View Post
Wow. The voice of reason?? Something we haven't heard in a LONG LONG time.
Oh Clara, it's just our eccentric ol' Uncle Ron going off again. Isn't he just darling? Bless his heart....
Thanks from Clara007
imaginethat is online now  
Old January 31st, 2017, 05:28 PM   #9
Banned
 
excalibur's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: The Milky Way
Posts: 24,581
Clara, confused as usual. I mean she thinks William McKinley authored the 1903 Immigration Act.

Facts are that Progs will not vote for pulling welfare from illegals, and Clara would howl like hades if it was attempted. And hint to Clara, not all Progs are Democrats.



excalibur is offline  
Old January 31st, 2017, 05:33 PM   #10
Senior Member
 
imaginethat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Western Slope, Colorado
Posts: 56,707
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clara007 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by excalibur View Post
Progs will never vote to stop welfare benefits to illegals. And SCOTUS, thanks to Progs, insists that children of illegals get public schooling. I can see Schumer crying now. So while it may be a "better" solution, it cannot be worked now, so either the wall or the same as we've been doing for decades. We cannot continue the same.

And I expect President Trump to enforce all the laws already on the books, once the slimy Democrats get around to showing up at the Judiciary Committee so a vote can be held to send Jeff Sessions to a floor vote and approval as AG.
Was that an excuse I heard?? "The Progs will never vote to stop welfare"??
Why are you concerned about Progs?? You've got the world by a string, my friend. You've got the Senate, the House and the Presidency. Your team has the opportunity to giveth and taketh away. Go for it. Here's your chance.
Don't school those immigrant children. That will SHOW THEM. Don't send them food stamps. Don't offer healthcare or emergency room services. Take it all away. Scoot. Get busy.
I can't wait to see how it all works out.
Good catch, Most ODS sufferers have a very uncertain period in their life upcoming. They've been the downtrodden doing their best against the Ebul Progs who have thwarted every good thing the ODS sufferers wanted to do, like ........ well, you know, some of those good things they wanted to do. Stopped cold.

And now, even though the ODS sufferers are in full control of the presidency and Congress, you watch Clara. The Ebul Progs will screw things up.

Just watch.
Thanks from Clara007
imaginethat is online now  
Reply

  Defending The Truth Political Forum > Political Issues > Immigration

Tags
border, paul, ron, solution, usa, wall



Search tags for this page
Click on a term to search for related topics.
Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Donald Trump: 'We will build Mexico border wall' (picture) intangible child Current Events 29 January 26th, 2017 09:26 AM
Trump moves to build border wall, cut sanctuary city funds coke Current Events 9 January 25th, 2017 07:30 PM
Um. Should we be building The Big Wall around - uhm - Wall Street? tristanrobin Current Events 15 December 26th, 2016 02:32 AM
Paul Krugman Exposes Wall Street Vampires' Latest Ploy LongWinded Economics 0 May 11th, 2015 10:14 AM
Paul Krugman And Ron Paul Agree: Debt Ceiling Plan Sucks imaginethat Current Events 1 August 1st, 2011 05:01 PM


Facebook Twitter RSS Feed



Copyright © 2005-2013 Defending The Truth. All rights reserved.