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Old January 15th, 2018, 01:52 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by TreeDoc View Post
Expedited Removal is used on illegals that have been in the US for less than 2 years.

From the first link:

What you are describing is "Returns", not "Removals".
Good point
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Old January 15th, 2018, 02:06 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by TreeDoc View Post
When illegals are "rounded-up" it is because the government has already done the research and has warrants to go and either look at company records and arrest those the warrant covers or they have a warrant already for a specific person or people. They can't get a warrant without probable cause. Even the "no-knock' warrant is issued by a judge before it can be carried out.

Miranda falls under both the 5th and 14th Amendments Due Process clauses. When a person is detained they get read their rights, whether they are legally here or illegally. SHRUG

Nothing in the Katheryn Johnston case had to do with the Patriot Act, no news stories reported it and its not in the court documents.

You cannot have a precedent that is specific to only one segment of criminals? LMFAO The Patriot Act is law, not precedent, it requires probable cause in order to get a warrant issued prior to an act being committed.

Yes, the Patriot Act targets some American Civilians, namely Militia morons, Conspiracy dumb shits, etc. Do we really need a conspiracy web link to tell us that?

Expedited Removal doesn't require a person be given due process in order to be removed from the US. SHRUG

As a small business owner you may well be aware of the differences in how you get treated and large businesses get treated.

If you are suspect in some crime, any crime, law enforcement gets a warranty and the can very effectively shut you down and put you out of business without ever actually convicting you of any crime. They raid your business and home. They take all of your records and computers. Weeks or months later when they decide you are innocent, the damage will have already been done. You won't know who owes you money, you won't know who you owe money too. You your credit and reputation will be destroyed. Short of being convicted of a crime, one of the the worst things that can happen to you is to be a "person of interest" in a criminal investigation, especially the feds !!

Here's my premise. IF any LEO finds an illegal working at any company, is that not at least prima facia evidence of an attempt by that company to defraud the federal government ?? Is that not sufficient to grant a warrant for a deep and exhaustive search of their hiring practices and tax payments ??

Sadly large companies are not treated this way. Even when they are suspected of massive criminal behaviors, it's the federal prosecutors sitting down with an army of corporate lawyers and combing through minute details and trying to figure out who knew what and when. More often than not NO ONE goes to jail and the company simply pays a fine.

Asplundh is a very good example. I can't find anywhere what the managers that plead guilty were actually sentenced to. Was their guilty plea covered under the fine ?? But the top managers and owners were NEVER AT RISK. They reaped millions, possibly hundreds of millions of dollars in additional profits, yet absolutely no risk of ever going to prison, or even having to personally pay a fine. And this is not the first time they've been busted.

What if we treat large companies the way small ones get treated. What if, the next time Asplundh gets caught with illegals WE SHUT THEM DOWN COMPLETELY, for 6, 8 maybe even 12 weeks as ICE, FBI, IRS and any one else that may haven an interest "investigates". What if at the same time EVERY FEDERAL, STATE and COUNTY contract they hold get's CANCELLED ??

Here's the reality of the situation. They paid "the largest fine ever" for their illegal hiring practices. Now the federal prosecutors are sitting in some ugly little corner office of an ugly little concrete building somewhere, wearing $300 Men's Wearhouse suits, sipping an 8 year old scotch out of plastic cups and patting themselves on the back for collecting the largest fine ever.

At the same time, across town, the company's lawyers was sitting in oak paneled luxury, wearing $3000 suits and sipping 20 year old scotch out of crystal glasses and patting themselves on the back for letting a $3 BILLION dollar a year company walk away with a measly $95 million dollar fine.

We can solve the illegal problem very quickly, we just need to make the people that benefit the most from their employment, PAY the most. We need to start perp walking CEO's and boards of directors to waiting cop cars. Shutting them down and seizing their records and computers for a few weeks will cost far more than any profits they might make. Even if they get released the same day, A CEO even seeing the inside of a jail should scare the hell out them. Threaten to seize their homes and stock portfolios as ill gotten gains should put the fear of God, or at least the federal government into them.

Can you imagine the effect if the feds shut down EVERY SINGLE Walmart store in the nation, even for a week ?? What if every single Tyson food processing plant was padlocked for a few days ?? How would people feel about Exxon if they couldn't get gas because all of their refineries have been seized ??

If we did this AND made a very simple change to immigration law stopping the automatic citizenship for any one born here we simply wouldn't have an illegal issue.
Thanks from TreeDoc
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Old January 15th, 2018, 02:13 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by BubbaJones View Post
As a small business owner you may well be aware of the differences in how you get treated and large businesses get treated.

If you are suspect in some crime, any crime, law enforcement gets a warranty and the can very effectively shut you down and put you out of business without ever actually convicting you of any crime. They raid your business and home. They take all of your records and computers. Weeks or months later when they decide you are innocent, the damage will have already been done. You won't know who owes you money, you won't know who you owe money too. You your credit and reputation will be destroyed. Short of being convicted of a crime, one of the the worst things that can happen to you is to be a "person of interest" in a criminal investigation, especially the feds !!

Here's my premise. IF any LEO finds an illegal working at any company, is that not at least prima facia evidence of an attempt by that company to defraud the federal government ?? Is that not sufficient to grant a warrant for a deep and exhaustive search of their hiring practices and tax payments ??

Sadly large companies are not treated this way. Even when they are suspected of massive criminal behaviors, it's the federal prosecutors sitting down with an army of corporate lawyers and combing through minute details and trying to figure out who knew what and when. More often than not NO ONE goes to jail and the company simply pays a fine.

Asplundh is a very good example. I can't find anywhere what the managers that plead guilty were actually sentenced to. Was their guilty plea covered under the fine ?? But the top managers and owners were NEVER AT RISK. They reaped millions, possibly hundreds of millions of dollars in additional profits, yet absolutely no risk of ever going to prison, or even having to personally pay a fine. And this is not the first time they've been busted.

What if we treat large companies the way small ones get treated. What if, the next time Asplundh gets caught with illegals WE SHUT THEM DOWN COMPLETELY, for 6, 8 maybe even 12 weeks as ICE, FBI, IRS and any one else that may haven an interest "investigates". What if at the same time EVERY FEDERAL, STATE and COUNTY contract they hold get's CANCELLED ??

Here's the reality of the situation. They paid "the largest fine ever" for their illegal hiring practices. Now the federal prosecutors are sitting in some ugly little corner office of an ugly little concrete building somewhere, wearing $300 Men's Wearhouse suits, sipping an 8 year old scotch out of plastic cups and patting themselves on the back for collecting the largest fine ever.

At the same time, across town, the company's lawyers was sitting in oak paneled luxury, wearing $3000 suits and sipping 20 year old scotch out of crystal glasses and patting themselves on the back for letting a $3 BILLION dollar a year company walk away with a measly $95 million dollar fine.

We can solve the illegal problem very quickly, we just need to make the people that benefit the most from their employment, PAY the most. We need to start perp walking CEO's and boards of directors to waiting cop cars. Shutting them down and seizing their records and computers for a few weeks will cost far more than any profits they might make. Even if they get released the same day, A CEO even seeing the inside of a jail should scare the hell out them. Threaten to seize their homes and stock portfolios as ill gotten gains should put the fear of God, or at least the federal government into them.

Can you imagine the effect if the feds shut down EVERY SINGLE Walmart store in the nation, even for a week ?? What if every single Tyson food processing plant was padlocked for a few days ?? How would people feel about Exxon if they couldn't get gas because all of their refineries have been seized ??

If we did this AND made a very simple change to immigration law stopping the automatic citizenship for any one born here we simply wouldn't have an illegal issue.

The government could operate the way you suggest; however, the reality is we are NOT a National Socialist country just yet. There are serious ramifications in telling people who they can and cannot hire.

The practice jeopardizes private property Rights; it creates bad precedents for business owners. If you come down on business too hard, they move to other countries.

You can pass all the laws you like, but I am under no constitutional or moral obligation to obey an unconstitutional act that criminalizes Liberty nor my own private property Rights.

Last edited by discollector; January 15th, 2018 at 02:18 PM.
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Old January 15th, 2018, 02:17 PM   #64
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[QUOTE=guy39;1134326][QUOTE=discollector;1134292][QUOTE=guy39;1134187]
Quote:
Originally Posted by discollector View Post

Really? What names was you posting under when we tangled?
You realize, that as a black man, calling me David Duke makes me laugh
Seriously, your personal insults are hilarious. Keep them coming.

Again, your all over the place when were supposed to be having a immigration discussion. I am very aware of the ATL case of the 92 year old being shot. This would be a great point in a subject about the police, sovereign immunity, etc. But it has not got a damn thing to do with illegal immigrants or immigration. This is not putting the subject in perspective. This is yelling look a squirrel. The crux of it all is this

1. You argue you should be able to hire anyone you damn well please including illegal aliens.
2. You claim because you cant afford American labor and/or they are to expensive and want to charge to much.
3. That is the points you made at first. I fully expect if we keep going you will be yammering on about the fake moon landings or something and no due process for the man on the moon as told to you from your church of Israel at Plymouth Rock or something
4. Peace out

Shadilay,
KeK be upon thee
Using a white supremacy meme and claiming to be black... how bold of you!

The 92 year old grandmother might not have gotten shot had the cops not thought they could hide behind the so - called "Patriot Act." And what did the so - called "Patriot Act" have to do with her fact situation? Not a damn thing.

Quit pretending to be black. You're giving black people a bad rap.
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Old January 15th, 2018, 02:23 PM   #65
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[QUOTE=discollector;1134349][QUOTE=guy39;1134326][QUOTE=discollector;1134292]
Quote:
Originally Posted by guy39 View Post

Using a white supremacy meme and claiming to be black... how bold of you!

The 92 year old grandmother might not have gotten shot had the cops not thought they could hide behind the so - called "Patriot Act." And what did the so - called "Patriot Act" have to do with her fact situation? Not a damn thing.

Quit pretending to be black. You're giving black people a bad rap.
Oh. I do not fit your narrative huh.

KeK

Last edited by guy39; January 15th, 2018 at 02:29 PM.
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Old January 15th, 2018, 02:24 PM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BubbaJones View Post
As a small business owner you may well be aware of the differences in how you get treated and large businesses get treated.

If you are suspect in some crime, any crime, law enforcement gets a warranty and the can very effectively shut you down and put you out of business without ever actually convicting you of any crime. They raid your business and home. They take all of your records and computers. Weeks or months later when they decide you are innocent, the damage will have already been done. You won't know who owes you money, you won't know who you owe money too. You your credit and reputation will be destroyed. Short of being convicted of a crime, one of the the worst things that can happen to you is to be a "person of interest" in a criminal investigation, especially the feds !!

Here's my premise. IF any LEO finds an illegal working at any company, is that not at least prima facia evidence of an attempt by that company to defraud the federal government ?? Is that not sufficient to grant a warrant for a deep and exhaustive search of their hiring practices and tax payments ??

Sadly large companies are not treated this way. Even when they are suspected of massive criminal behaviors, it's the federal prosecutors sitting down with an army of corporate lawyers and combing through minute details and trying to figure out who knew what and when. More often than not NO ONE goes to jail and the company simply pays a fine.

Asplundh is a very good example. I can't find anywhere what the managers that plead guilty were actually sentenced to. Was their guilty plea covered under the fine ?? But the top managers and owners were NEVER AT RISK. They reaped millions, possibly hundreds of millions of dollars in additional profits, yet absolutely no risk of ever going to prison, or even having to personally pay a fine. And this is not the first time they've been busted.

What if we treat large companies the way small ones get treated. What if, the next time Asplundh gets caught with illegals WE SHUT THEM DOWN COMPLETELY, for 6, 8 maybe even 12 weeks as ICE, FBI, IRS and any one else that may haven an interest "investigates". What if at the same time EVERY FEDERAL, STATE and COUNTY contract they hold get's CANCELLED ??

Here's the reality of the situation. They paid "the largest fine ever" for their illegal hiring practices. Now the federal prosecutors are sitting in some ugly little corner office of an ugly little concrete building somewhere, wearing $300 Men's Wearhouse suits, sipping an 8 year old scotch out of plastic cups and patting themselves on the back for collecting the largest fine ever.

At the same time, across town, the company's lawyers was sitting in oak paneled luxury, wearing $3000 suits and sipping 20 year old scotch out of crystal glasses and patting themselves on the back for letting a $3 BILLION dollar a year company walk away with a measly $95 million dollar fine.

We can solve the illegal problem very quickly, we just need to make the people that benefit the most from their employment, PAY the most. We need to start perp walking CEO's and boards of directors to waiting cop cars. Shutting them down and seizing their records and computers for a few weeks will cost far more than any profits they might make. Even if they get released the same day, A CEO even seeing the inside of a jail should scare the hell out them. Threaten to seize their homes and stock portfolios as ill gotten gains should put the fear of God, or at least the federal government into them.

Can you imagine the effect if the feds shut down EVERY SINGLE Walmart store in the nation, even for a week ?? What if every single Tyson food processing plant was padlocked for a few days ?? How would people feel about Exxon if they couldn't get gas because all of their refineries have been seized ??

If we did this AND made a very simple change to immigration law stopping the automatic citizenship for any one born here we simply wouldn't have an illegal issue.
I agree with you for the most part, as Asplundh is a competitor. The hiring supervisors were the ones that were responsible, we don't really know if the CEO actually knew or not, kinda like at Tyson when Bush raided them, the HR department was using the same numbers for more then one person, or they were selling the workers new numbers along with new applications and raises. The company got fined and the HR personnel got charged.

Asplundh's fine was suppose to be a forfeiture of moneys they made over the 4 years of this supposedly going on, I guarantee its gone on a lot longer then that. http://blogs.ilw.com/entry.php?9985-...mented-Workers

I think we should publicize things like this a lot more and put companies on notice that they better have their documents in order and they better be doing things correctly or there will be heavy fines and someone going to jail.

Last edited by TreeDoc; January 15th, 2018 at 02:28 PM.
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Old January 15th, 2018, 02:38 PM   #67
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The Patriot Act had nothing to do with the 92 year old lady being shot in her home by crooked cops. SMFH
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Old January 15th, 2018, 02:51 PM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BubbaJones View Post
As a small business owner you may well be aware of the differences in how you get treated and large businesses get treated.

If you are suspect in some crime, any crime, law enforcement gets a warranty and the can very effectively shut you down and put you out of business without ever actually convicting you of any crime. They raid your business and home. They take all of your records and computers. Weeks or months later when they decide you are innocent, the damage will have already been done. You won't know who owes you money, you won't know who you owe money too. You your credit and reputation will be destroyed. Short of being convicted of a crime, one of the the worst things that can happen to you is to be a "person of interest" in a criminal investigation, especially the feds !!

Here's my premise. IF any LEO finds an illegal working at any company, is that not at least prima facia evidence of an attempt by that company to defraud the federal government ?? Is that not sufficient to grant a warrant for a deep and exhaustive search of their hiring practices and tax payments ??

Misery is a beautiful State bar none.

Sadly large companies are not treated this way. Even when they are suspected of massive criminal behaviors, it's the federal prosecutors sitting down with an army of corporate lawyers and combing through minute details and trying to figure out who knew what and when. More often than not NO ONE goes to jail and the company simply pays a fine.

Asplundh is a very good example. I can't find anywhere what the managers that plead guilty were actually sentenced to. Was their guilty plea covered under the fine ?? But the top managers and owners were NEVER AT RISK. They reaped millions, possibly hundreds of millions of dollars in additional profits, yet absolutely no risk of ever going to prison, or even having to personally pay a fine. And this is not the first time they've been busted.

What if we treat large companies the way small ones get treated. What if, the next time Asplundh gets caught with illegals WE SHUT THEM DOWN COMPLETELY, for 6, 8 maybe even 12 weeks as ICE, FBI, IRS and any one else that may haven an interest "investigates". What if at the same time EVERY FEDERAL, STATE and COUNTY contract they hold get's CANCELLED ??

Here's the reality of the situation. They paid "the largest fine ever" for their illegal hiring practices. Now the federal prosecutors are sitting in some ugly little corner office of an ugly little concrete building somewhere, wearing $300 Men's Wearhouse suits, sipping an 8 year old scotch out of plastic cups and patting themselves on the back for collecting the largest fine ever.

At the same time, across town, the company's lawyers was sitting in oak paneled luxury, wearing $3000 suits and sipping 20 year old scotch out of crystal glasses and patting themselves on the back for letting a $3 BILLION dollar a year company walk away with a measly $95 million dollar fine.

We can solve the illegal problem very quickly, we just need to make the people that benefit the most from their employment, PAY the most. We need to start perp walking CEO's and boards of directors to waiting cop cars. Shutting them down and seizing their records and computers for a few weeks will cost far more than any profits they might make. Even if they get released the same day, A CEO even seeing the inside of a jail should scare the hell out them. Threaten to seize their homes and stock portfolios as ill gotten gains should put the fear of God, or at least the federal government into them.

Can you imagine the effect if the feds shut down EVERY SINGLE Walmart store in the nation, even for a week ?? What if every single Tyson food processing plant was padlocked for a few days ?? How would people feel about Exxon if they couldn't get gas because all of their refineries have been seized ??

If we did this AND made a very simple change to immigration law stopping the automatic citizenship for any one born here we simply wouldn't have an illegal issue.
Misery is a beautiful State bar none.
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Old January 15th, 2018, 02:52 PM   #69
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[QUOTE=guy39;1134355][QUOTE=discollector;1134349][QUOTE=guy39;1134326]
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Originally Posted by discollector View Post

Oh. I do not fit your narrative huh.

KeK
It's just that were better poseurs and fakers before you came along. I don't have a narrative.

If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck has webbed feet...
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Old January 15th, 2018, 02:55 PM   #70
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It's just that were better poseurs and fakers before you came along. I don't have a narrative.

If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck has webbed feet...
Yes sir massa
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