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Old January 15th, 2018, 04:00 PM   #71
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When I type in Kathryn Johnston Patriot Act, Google says Patriot Act is missing in all the story links SHRUG

https://www.google.com/search?client...w=1088&bih=598

Maybe a link should be supplied that says Mrs Johnston's death was due to the Patriot Act or that the Patriot Act had anything to do with the case itself. SMFH

Last edited by TreeDoc; January 15th, 2018 at 04:11 PM.
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Old January 15th, 2018, 04:23 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by discollector View Post
You're an idiot, a troll and you're wrong. Can you say charwin95?

Google the woman's name and Patriot Act. That shouldn't be too damn hard even for you.

Back to ignore... if you had written more than five sentences, I wouldn't have read them.
Judgmental beyond all recognition. Who made you the pope of this dump? Just kidding.
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Old January 15th, 2018, 05:16 PM   #73
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Judgmental beyond all recognition. Who made you the pope of this dump? Just kidding.
Let me tell you what I tell everyone else that gets between me and the professional stalker:

Don't let my problem become your problem.
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Old January 15th, 2018, 08:29 PM   #74
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There is an old country song that says, "one day you're going to know the cost - for everything you gain there's something lost."

The anti-immigrant effort is dishonest with everybody, including themselves. They deny the obvious. Each measure they suggest has a cost in terms of Liberty and of Freedom. These self absorbed people do not understand that our Constitution has suffered what might already be irreversible infringements on our Liberties.

One day, the worst kinds of totalitarians will have control of the House of Representatives, the Senate, and the Presidency. It's the natural course of politics.

If anyone really wanted to pursue rather than dishonestly denying the costs of these anti-immigrant proposals, they would have weighed in by now. Instead, we are treated to the circus atmosphere of egotistical racists that want to build a name for themselves by pretending to be defending a policy that is strategically doomed to fail; it is counter-productive to the cause of Liberty; it is going to end in defeat.

The reality for the racists is that the Republican Establishment and making money. IF the anti-immigrant view had any basis in fact, the anti-immigrant agenda would have been a done deal eons ago. Instead, the Republicans are doing their dead level best to resist the extreme positions that are endangering our economy and our position as the leader of the free world. Even Donald Trump is working his ass to discredit his own agenda on immigration, stalling for time so that the 2018 elections will load Congress up with Democrats where the extreme position will fail.

There are addressable issues right now. But, the left is about to deal you the ultimate death blow on this issue. IF Americans don't want people they call "illegal aliens" in their country, the best place to look is how they run their own lives. While the hypocrites that pretend to criticize me for exercising my Rights in a free market economy, they shop at places like Walmart, who was convicted of knowingly hiring subcontractors that hired undocumented workers. But, their pretexts, excuses and B.S. is put out there as a distraction because they cannot afford an honest and productive conversation.

There are solutions and the anti-immigrant right simply don't have the right solutions. But, nobody can force them to be right. And, unfortunately, the wrong element has control over the Internet. And why shouldn't they? The bulk of them are too lazy to work (which is why they can milk the Internet for all it's worth.) But, they don't have the power of the left that controls the controlled news and entertainment media - where the real power is and where the ultimate answer is.

The only things my critics accomplished were to stifle real discussions; lock a variety of opinions out and filibuster so that no real grass roots ideas could be introduced into the mix. OMG. They are going to come behind me and tell you how smart they are and how they have this all worked out. They have the answers and anybody that stood up to them is the problem. The thing you have to ask yourself is simply this: Who are they really trying to convince...you or themselves?

I'm not going to stick around for the answer. If anyone wants a serious discussion, you can PM me. I'm off this thread. A wise man once told me to never argue with an idiot. They will only drag you down to their level and beat you with experience. I'm taking his advice before I'm forced to wallow in the mud with people who have been exposed as liars, poseurs, fakes, and frauds... all without any input from yours truly.

There IS a better way to resolve the problems - without jeopardizing your Liberties.
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Old January 15th, 2018, 09:36 PM   #75
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Walmart was not convicted of hiring sub-contractors that hired illegals. SMFH

Walmart settled for paying a fine of $11M because of the midlevel execs knowledge. Walmart wasn't convicted of anything. The janitorial services Walmart used across the country plead guilty to hiring illegals and paid $4M in fines.
Wal-Mart Settles Illegal Immigrant Case for $11M | Fox News

And then Walmart wins on appeal.
Quote:
Writing for a three-judge appeals court panel, Circuit Judge D. Brooks Smith upheld rulings in Wal-Mart's favor by U.S. District Judge Garrett Brown in Newark, N.J.

The judge said the proposed class of plaintiffs should not be certified, noting they worked in 180 different stores in 33 U.S. states, for 70 different contractors and subcontractors, and for varying hours and wages.

He also found that, while the plaintiffs plausibly alleged a conspiracy to commit money laundering, this did not support a broader allegation that Wal-Mart conspired to harbor illegal immigrants or encourage illegal immigration, in violation of a federal anti-racketeering law.

Finally, the 3rd Circuit rejected the false imprisonment claim, saying Wal-Mart offered evidence that its stores had unobstructed emergency exits.
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2...mart-spokesman

How can an honest and productive conversation happen when there are claims made with no links to back them up? And when links are posted they show that claim to be dishonest or flat out wrong? When someone lies to make their point, it doesn't progress any conversation.

What Liberties has a US Citizen lost due to immigration laws? SHRUG

Last edited by TreeDoc; January 15th, 2018 at 10:12 PM.
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Old January 15th, 2018, 09:45 PM   #76
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I agree with you for the most part, as Asplundh is a competitor. The hiring supervisors were the ones that were responsible, we don't really know if the CEO actually knew or not, kinda like at Tyson when Bush raided them, the HR department was using the same numbers for more then one person, or they were selling the workers new numbers along with new applications and raises. The company got fined and the HR personnel got charged.

Asplundh's fine was suppose to be a forfeiture of moneys they made over the 4 years of this supposedly going on, I guarantee its gone on a lot longer then that. Asplundh Manager & Supervisors Charged with hiring Undocumented Workers - Blogs - ILW.COM Discussion Board

I think we should publicize things like this a lot more and put companies on notice that they better have their documents in order and they better be doing things correctly or there will be heavy fines and someone going to jail.

There in lies the problem. They HAVE to have known. If they didn't, it was willful blindness. My take is, as Harry Truman's placard on his desk said, "The buck stops here". I really don't care if they knew or not, they SHOULD HAVE KNOWN. They are the people in charge and as such should be held legally and financially responsible.

As in the Asplundh case, they had already been busted once before. The CEO was fully aware they had been in trouble and if he failed to put in and fully enforce sufficient policy and procedures to stop the illegal activity, HE is ultimately responsible. It's a failure of leadership. HE and not some middle level manager should be the one going to jail.
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Old January 15th, 2018, 09:53 PM   #77
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There in lies the problem. They HAVE to have known. If they didn't, it was willful blindness. My take is, as Harry Truman's placard on his desk said, "The buck stops here". I really don't care if they knew or not, they SHOULD HAVE KNOWN. They are the people in charge and as such should be held legally and financially responsible.

As in the Asplundh case, they had already been busted once before. The CEO was fully aware they had been in trouble and if he failed to put in and fully enforce sufficient policy and procedures to stop the illegal activity, HE is ultimately responsible. It's a failure of leadership. HE and not some middle level manager should be the one going to jail.
Large companies like that have regional managers, low level execs do anything they can to look good to climb the corporate ladder. The company is held financially responsible, that's why they paid $95M. Did the CEO know? I don't think we will ever know for sure, but the feds go over all the evidence, they charge the person they find as having done it, in all cases so far it was lower level execs.

The CEO at Asplundh did put in a new policy, it didn't stop the low level exec from having the HR's department below him re-hire the same guys with new SS numbers.

Quote:
Court documents show the hiring system was developed after a 2009 audit of Asplundh by Homeland Security Investigations, which revealed the company employed workers who were not eligible to work in the country. Asplundh fired at least 100 of them, according to the documents, but a regional manager, Larry Gauger, later instructed supervisors to hire some of them back by accepting fake forms of identification, including permanent resident cards or Social Security cards.

Gauger, the documents said, “knew that the dismissed employees within his region were being re-hired under different and false names and false identity documentation and encouraged his supervisors and general foreman to continue this practice.”

Court records show Gauger has pleaded guilty and is scheduled to be sentenced next month, along with two supervisors, Juan Rodriguez and Jude Solis, who pleaded guilty in the same conspiracy. Solis was the supervisor who hired Feliciano, formerly on the books as Palao, in October 2012.
http://www.philly.com/philly/news/cr...-20170928.html

I think this part really stands out from that link
Quote:
In his statement, Asplundh said the company has since hired a third-party compliance officer, instituted training for all hiring managers, and set up procedures to investigate any reports of undocumented employees.

“As a business strategy, this is a good move,” Fandl said. “You want to get a compliance specialist in there.”

That’s because, he said, as steep as the payment is, Asplundh faces another, potentially more damaging, business challenge. Federal, state, and local governments could potentially decide that the company’s criminal conviction would be a sufficient reason to “debar” it from further government contracts, an important part of its revenues.

Last year, the privately held company paid a $187,718 penalty to the National Labor Relations Board in connection with violations at its Rocky Mountain, Va., location. The case was settled informally.
I think they should be audited for the next five years for illegal workers, and if even 1 is found then they can no longer do govt contracts.

or

They should be barred now for 10 years before they can bid on another govt contract.

I'm fine either way.

Last edited by TreeDoc; January 15th, 2018 at 10:09 PM.
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Old January 15th, 2018, 10:02 PM   #78
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Originally Posted by discollector View Post
The government could operate the way you suggest; however, the reality is we are NOT a National Socialist country just yet. There are serious ramifications in telling people who they can and cannot hire.

The practice jeopardizes private property Rights; it creates bad precedents for business owners. If you come down on business too hard, they move to other countries.

You can pass all the laws you like, but I am under no constitutional or moral obligation to obey an unconstitutional act that criminalizes Liberty nor my own private property Rights.

I completely disagree with you here.

I see no issue with requiring all workers to be either citizens or in the process of becoming one. First and foremost not only does it benefit the economy, it drives it.

What's to stop a company from bringing in workers from foreign countries to work for a dollar an hour ??? There are countries where that would be a king's ransom. But ultimately what you wind up with is an under employed or unemployed indigenous population and what truly is little more than slave class. Neither of these things support the local economy.

You're trying to claim unconstitutionality as a subterfuge for unfettered capitalism which history clearly demonstrates is a bad for the average citizen as any totalitarian regime could ever be.
Thanks from roastpork, guy39 and TreeDoc
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