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Old October 4th, 2008, 05:45 AM   #1
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Free market . . . but what about free movement?

I have a bone to pick with conservatives. How can you oppose the free movement of peoples when you support free trade? Since the NAFTA treaty was signed and trade was liberalised, border guards have tripled on the US-Mexico border. It seems only fair that border restrictions should similarly be liberalised. Are you advocating socialism or something?





Adam Smith, whose work is cited as a justification of unbridled capitalism, believed in free movement. I'm not sure about modern liberals (that's "liberal" is the classical sense).
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Old October 5th, 2008, 08:45 AM   #2
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I'll tell you how I can oppose freedome of movement on an inter-country basis.



Instead of getting off their asses and FIXING what is wrong in their own countries, people are moving to "Better" places, and putting strains on those economies and resources. THAT is why I am against freedopme of movement, such as is now prevelant in the European Union.
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Old October 5th, 2008, 10:38 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by Bronwyn
I'll tell you how I can oppose freedome of movement on an inter-country basis.



Instead of getting off their asses and FIXING what is wrong in their own countries, people are moving to "Better" places, and putting strains on those economies and resources. THAT is why I am against freedopme of movement, such as is now prevelant in the European Union.


It's kinda difficult when you have the world's only superpower desperate to make as much money out of you as possible.
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Old October 5th, 2008, 11:53 AM   #4
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It's kinda difficult when you have the world's only superpower desperate to make as much money out of you as possible.
You are full of BS Kap.

Point your fingers at your own country first.
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Old October 5th, 2008, 12:35 PM   #5
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You are full of BS Kap.

Point your fingers at your own country first.


The United States has a track record of exploiting third world countries (and especially Latin American ones). No BS, just straight established historical fact. What you make of this historical progression is what is up for interpretation. Many Latin Americans see this history of exploitation as justification to return the favor.
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Old October 5th, 2008, 12:51 PM   #6
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The United States has a track record of exploiting third world countries (and especially Latin American ones). No BS, just straight established historical fact. What you make of this historical progression is what is up for interpretation. Many Latin Americans see this history of exploitation as justification to return the favor.
Kap is in Russia saying big bad America is ruling over everyone for money.



Just because a few greedy capitalist get together and exploit in other countries this does not set the agenda for every American out in the public or the full concept of the United States politics.



If you are from a country that cost American family farms by the droves to go under through a deal the Wheat contracts of 1972 and the American tax payers in the end billions one shold not be pointing fingers.



In a solution to help other nations improve their economies the people of the United States have again lost by the Billions into the Trillions. The recent crash shows the price everyone is paying in an effort to help other countries develop sustainable economies. It has been called Free Trade. Without regulations and restrictions Free is not Free because you have a few taht will abuse the FREE TRADE.



If the united States was so terrible I am sure their would not be people from America that do obviously come foward and risk life and limb to record the atrocities of the greed of a few in order to create a public outrage and get the attention of what is happening.



That few of the "Only in it for the money" does not fully represent the American populace. So at the end of the day it is BS as to what Kap is saying.
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Old October 5th, 2008, 01:12 PM   #7
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Just because a few greedy capitalist get together and exploit in other countries this does not set the agenda for every American out in the public or the full concept of the United States politics.


The 'few greedy capitalists' happen to be the ruling class. And the American electorate reinforces the ideology every four years. Most of them, if you ask them, although disillusioned, still have 'faith' in the very rotten structure that, by its nature, creates the objective violence and exploitation that poor people live under.



Even so, if you ask people like Hugo Chavez what they think about the United States, they keep reiterating that they love the American people, but hate our government and foreign/trade policies.



Quote:
If you are from a country that cost American family farms by the droves to go under through a deal the Wheat contracts of 1972 and the American tax payers in the end billions one shold not be pointing fingers.



In a solution to help other nations improve their economies the people of the United States have again lost by the Billions into the Trillions. The recent crash shows the price everyone is paying in an effort to help other countries develop sustainable economies. It has been called Free Trade. Without regulations and restrictions Free is not Free because you have a few taht will abuse the FREE TRADE.


"Free trade" by definition is a mode of trade abuse. It's exploitative systemically. Since the advent of neo-liberal globalization, even granted further industrialization of 'developing countries', global wages have gone down (and considerably more if you're on the lower rung of the ladder). The only benefactors are the few on the top. If American economic policy is the widening of the gap between the rich and the poor (ultimately [consequently]), then free trade is just the global utterance of such inequality.



Quote:
If the united States was so terrible I am sure their would not be people from America that do obviously come foward and risk life and limb to record the atrocities of the greed of a few in order to create a public outrage and get the attention of what is happening.


I agree, there are those in this country that stand up to the system. The problem is that when people do that, they're criticized as 'unAmerican' by "always pointing their finger at their own country."



Quote:
That few of the "Only in it for the money" does not fully represent the American populace. So at the end of the day it is BS as to what Kap is saying.


Like I said, the "few only in it for the money" legitimize their power through the popular consensus of the American electorate. The masses always have the power to revolt, but not always the will.
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Old October 5th, 2008, 01:23 PM   #8
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American electorate. The masses always have the power to revolt, but not always the will.


That is because they believe they are free. Each day it becomes more obvious than not that they have sold themselves for nothing.



If not unAmerican one can also be called a "Terrorist" for taking a stand against corruption, been there.
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Old October 5th, 2008, 01:23 PM   #9
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I'd just like to point out that I'm not actually in Russia. And actually, the location that I'm at is completely irrelevant. And you are correct, Rod, capitalists running the world and America does not mean that it sets the agenda for everyone. Try not to take criticism of official policy as criticism of an entire people.



Oh, and the US ruling elites have no interest in improving foreign economies and standards of living. They might pull out people like Jeffrey Sachs to justify the exploitation; a man who believes that sweat shops will be the savior of the third world. Only a fool could fall for it.
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Old October 5th, 2008, 01:30 PM   #10
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I'd just like to point out that I'm not actually in Russia. And actually, the location that I'm at is completely irrelevant. And you are correct, Rod, capitalists running the world and America does not mean that it sets the agenda for everyone. Try not to take criticism of official policy as criticism of an entire people.



Oh, and the US ruling elites have no interest in improving foreign economies and standards of living. They might pull out people like Jeffrey Sachs to justify the exploitation; a man who believes that sweat shops will be the savior of the third world. Only a fool could fall for it.
Neither do the elite throughout the world why limit it to American Elitist?



I can honestly say I have met a few on the upper rung that have pushed for reform through the years.



Sad to say though once you been stripped financially it is a hard task. Especially when you or for yourself still putting the pieces together of who, what, when, where, how.



Thing about taking that trip through the forest you do learn a bit. I have learned it is an elite group but not necessarily where you think it is.
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