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Old December 13th, 2017, 09:47 PM   #1
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Why I consider myself a libertarian

I consider myself a libertarian, because that's what seems closest to what I think is the best policy for society. Today we live in the era of capitalism, and the state exists to enable capitalism - make it feasible.

There are essentially two extremes when it comes to how government can be implemented.

At one extreme government is excessive; it puts the collective of society before the individual. This is what socialism does.

At the other extreme government is non-existent. We can't have a state without government, and we can't have capitalism without the state. This is what anarchocapitalists are trying to do (but it can't be done), and it would put the individual before the collective of society.

What we need to achieve is equilibrium between the individual and the collective of society. Neither one should be put before the other. Libertarian principles/policies/platforms come closest to wanting to work towards achieving this goal; it's as though that's their mission.

Libertarianism also happens to be the only political ideology that doesn't mandate or depend on the existence of capitalism. Socialism mandates capitalism by requiring things like a minimum wage, health insurance tax fine individual mandates like the one in Obamacare (ACA), etc. With anarchocapitalism - well it's in the name; it's not anarchocapitalism if it doesn't actually have capitalism.
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Old December 14th, 2017, 12:15 AM   #2
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I've tried on most of the isms. None fit.

Some combination of them is what I support, but I'm unsure of the proper mix. Issues draw out my preferences, like, I totally believe in universal health care as socialists do. I also believe the US should spend drastically less on offense (defense) as most libertarians do.

I believe government should stay out of a woman's uterus like a liberal, and I place a high value on individual responsibility like a conservative.
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Old December 14th, 2017, 03:54 AM   #3
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Nobody will ever be free in a class society, and capitalism can only exist in what is effectively a police state, because how else could the thieves keep their swag?
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Old December 14th, 2017, 09:12 AM   #4
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I could tell you what I believe, but, it takes too long and I write books here. I will let this guy tell you my positions for me. Enjoy!

https://m.youtube.com/watch?t=292s&v=TGcNVTfJ-XE

What America needs is a hundred 40 year old Ron Pauls let loose on the landscape telling the truth about what is going on without bullshit and lies.
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Old December 14th, 2017, 09:51 AM   #5
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I'm an anarchist, or as many have now adopted the term volunteerist. I believe that throughout history the greatest atrocities ever committed against mankind can be directly traced back to the state. That being said, i am also a pragmatist and i realize that mankind is not, in its current state ready for self governance. Therefore i most currently identify w/ the small "L"s especially as i see the american left become more and more authoritarian.

IMO the best place to start is NAP (non-aggression principle), moving to re establish more autonomous states and removing the federal governments involvement in peoples day to day life. By doing this many of the big, dividing issues could be handled locally. Texas doest want abortion, texas doest have abortion. Callifornia wants pot legal, callifornia legalizes pot. Don't like that, move. If a state wants to provide healthcare for its people, and the people want it. Then they do it. Same w/ education and many other things. As it stands now some statee are footing thd bill for other states that they have no say in or will see any of the results. Good or bad.
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Last edited by Sabcat; December 14th, 2017 at 09:57 AM.
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Old December 14th, 2017, 03:26 PM   #6
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I believe in a system of regulated markets, with the market doing what it does best, markets with many buyers, many sellers, low barriers to entry, and near perfect knowledge of market conditions by buyers and sellers, and the state doing what it does best, regulating monopolies and monopsonies. Managing large social insurance schemes, and planning and providing key infrastructure.
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Old December 15th, 2017, 01:51 PM   #7
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Thanks to those who have replied with their own background/positions for sharing.
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Old December 17th, 2017, 10:24 PM   #8
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You cannot explain the world with a political ideology. The best purpose that they serve are a base for understanding the world, like a "launching pad" of sorts. It is on you as an individual to think critically, and examine the world around you yourself. You can't depend on political ideology to do that. In the end, all of these ideologies fail and come short of what they try to accomplish.

When ppl ask me what I am, or try to label me, I simply tell them that I'm a living organism.
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Old December 18th, 2017, 04:48 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gordy View Post
You cannot explain the world with a political ideology.
Yeah, I don't see how that's would be its purpose, but how is this relevant to this thread?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gordy View Post
The best purpose that they serve are a base for understanding the world, like a "launching pad" of sorts.
A political ideology is drawn from a given (as in "premise of") understanding of the world, and usually a self-serving agenda. Even if it could be used to help understand the world (by "reverse engineering" it), that still wouldn't be its purpose.

Science, not politics, is for understanding the world. The purpose of politics is essentially to establish a capitalist foundation and infrastructure for society.

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Originally Posted by Gordy View Post
It is on you as an individual to think critically, and examine the world around you yourself. You can't depend on political ideology to do that.
What if the government forces you to do differently from this? For example with human-caused global warming, there are people who want to make the government decide for you whether or not it is a crisis (with carbon taxes, cap and trade, etc.). Same with healthcare, what if the government dictates to you that you are required to purchase health insurance (e.g. ACA individual tax fine mandate)?

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Originally Posted by Gordy View Post
In the end, all of these ideologies fail and come short of what they try to accomplish.
I certainly agree when it comes to socialism and anarcho-capitalism, but we also can't easily get away from society, which is the only way to avoid getting snagged by things like states, governments, taxes, etc.

If you can get a spaceship and use it to go live on a different planet, then you'd be the only person who could (at least so far, anyways) and would ever be able to separate yourself from society and its politics. Maybe you could live alone on some uninhabited island in the middle of the ocean, but even then if some government decides to come along and claim that island and everything on it, you're no longer isolated from the rest of society. Even if that never happened, would you want to live by yourself on an island with no one to talk to, nothing to do except hunt, gather, and avoid predators or harsh environmental conditions? It may or may not be for you or a small number of other people, but I would expect that number of people to be quite insignificant (e.g., way below 1% of people); so I don't think close to 100% of people want to leave society to live in total isolation from other people.

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Originally Posted by Gordy View Post
When ppl ask me what I am, or try to label me, I simply tell them that I'm a living organism.
That doesn't explain what you want government to be able to do, or not do, to you and others, though.
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Last edited by Neil; December 18th, 2017 at 05:03 AM.
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Old December 29th, 2017, 02:42 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neil View Post
Yeah, I don't see how that's would be its purpose, but how is this relevant to this thread?
Well, we're discussing political ideology. I merely stated my opinion.


Quote:
A political ideology is drawn from a given (as in "premise of") understanding of the world, and usually a self-serving agenda. Even if it could be used to help understand the world (by "reverse engineering" it), that still wouldn't be its purpose.

Science, not politics, is for understanding the world. The purpose of politics is essentially to establish a capitalist foundation and infrastructure for society.
The purpose of politics is to build a state and establish systems and hierarchies. Capitalism is just one of those systems. Political ideologies are often used to explain society and the world, otherwise how would politicians be able to construct these systems?

Politics is merely there to make you aware of the world around you. Once your politics begin to conflict with who you are as a human being, it is time to abandon those politics.

Quote:
What if the government forces you to do differently from this? For example with human-caused global warming, there are people who want to make the government decide for you whether or not it is a crisis (with carbon taxes, cap and trade, etc.). Same with healthcare, what if the government dictates to you that you are required to purchase health insurance (e.g. ACA individual tax fine mandate)?
If those things are intolerable to you, then it is certainly your right to resist them. However, you must keep an open mind, look at other perspectives, and think critically. Then, you'll be able to authentically understand exactly what it is that you're resisting w/o the help of some grand narrative pushed by those who seek to control you.

Quote:
I certainly agree when it comes to socialism and anarcho-capitalism, but we also can't easily get away from society, which is the only way to avoid getting snagged by things like states, governments, taxes, etc.

If you can get a spaceship and use it to go live on a different planet, then you'd be the only person who could (at least so far, anyways) and would ever be able to separate yourself from society and its politics. Maybe you could live alone on some uninhabited island in the middle of the ocean, but even then if some government decides to come along and claim that island and everything on it, you're no longer isolated from the rest of society. Even if that never happened, would you want to live by yourself on an island with no one to talk to, nothing to do except hunt, gather, and avoid predators or harsh environmental conditions? It may or may not be for you or a small number of other people, but I would expect that number of people to be quite insignificant (e.g., way below 1% of people); so I don't think close to 100% of people want to leave society to live in total isolation from other people.
It's not about escaping society, it's about divesting from constructed, narrowly-defined narratives that prevent you from living an authentic life. You can't avoid government, taxes, etc. None of those things are going anywhere anytime soon, whether you like it or not. You just have to survive in spite of them. Although, if being anti-government is what gives your life meaning then that is your choice.

Quote:
That doesn't explain what you want government to be able to do, or not do, to you and others, though.
It does. Anything that violates my autonomy, my right -- and the right of people I care about -- to exist and live a happy life, is intolerable to me.

Last edited by Gordy; December 29th, 2017 at 03:25 PM.
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