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Old May 27th, 2015, 09:28 AM   #31
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IMHO we need to get the f*ck out of the entire region, Israel can handle itself. We don't really need the oil anymore, we could be self sufficient if we were to develop our own resources, change to natural gas and electricity in the auto industry, and fully use other forms of energy. Which we could do if Obama would allow the cleaner use of coal and the f*cking pipeline. However I would feel bad for the Kurds and Coptic Christians, etc. It all boils down to the fact that Islam and theocracies both suck.
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Old May 27th, 2015, 12:39 PM   #32
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We've talked on this before and I don't think I've ever given the impression that I'm not 100% serious about joining.

I was initially considering the Army but after some talking with my father, friends, and even a discussion (or lackthereof) from the Army recruiters, I decided that I'd go with the Navy. I figure if I don't do something like Engineman or Machinist's Mate, as I do what something that even if I get the boot early (I do want a 20 year career) I'll still have an employable skill, I'll do Damage Controlman, as that sounds both fun and something employable as a firefighter or such after the Navy.

My grandfather was also in the Navy during the War, so I figured it was part of that family trade that I could carry along.
You do know that a Machinist's Mate maintains the ships reduction gears and steam turbines and work in the hottest and deepest bowels of the ship?

Engineman is much better as you basically work on diesel engines of all types including small craft engines. You normally work in a shop instead a hot main engine room.

All sailors are trained in damage control.
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Old May 27th, 2015, 12:41 PM   #33
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The Shia, Sunnis and Kurds of Iraq do not look at Iraq as their country like we look at the U.S. At the conclusion of WW I, the victorious powers met in Paris to divide the spoils of war. Great Britain and France wanted to create the countries of Iraq and Iran in order to colonize their oil resources. Woodrow Wilson argued bitterly and unsuccessfully that, if you pen up three distinct groups like the Sunnis, Shia and Kurds within the same border, the results would be disasterous. Wilson was correct.

When we invaded and took control of Iraq in 2003, the Bush Administration kicked the Sunnis and Kurds out of the government and military. This left the Iranian influenced Shia in charge of the whole show. The Shia exacted their revenge on the old Saddam Sunni loyalists and the Sunnis are essentially enemies of the Shia controlled government. When ISIS rolled into town, the Sunnis either sided with this extreme Sunni sect or were indifferent. They feel that, if they fight ISIS, then only their Shia enemies in Baghdad would benefit and they, the Sunnis, would continue to be abused by the Shia controlled government.

The second problem has to do with Iran. Since the Shia Iraqis are too cowardly to confront ISIS, the Iranian Shia have entered Iraq and attacked and destroyed Sunni neighborhoods while attacking ISIS. Once the Iranian Shia remove ISIS from Sunni territory, they rape, plunder and murder the Sunni population. I think you can see now Kbear why the Sunnis refuse to fight ISIS. For Isis is the only thing standing between the Sunnis and their Shia oppressors. When Joe Biden, as a Senator, suggested splitting Iraq into three countries, one Shia, one Sunni and one Kurd, he was channeling Woodrow Wilson's wisdom. Sunnis see themselves as Sunnis. Shia see themselves as Shia and the Kurds see themselves as Kurds. None see themselves as Iraqis first. To waste more American blood and treasure on such irreconcilable differences is a fools game. It might be beneficial to our Military Industrial Complex, Saudi Arabia and Israel but offers little benefit to the American people.
Yes! Another good post.
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Old May 27th, 2015, 02:14 PM   #34
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Yes! Another good post.
Why do so many RW suddenly disappear when historical facts and logic is brought into the discussion???
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Old May 27th, 2015, 03:00 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by Camelot View Post
The Shia, Sunnis and Kurds of Iraq do not look at Iraq as their country like we look at the U.S. At the conclusion of WW I, the victorious powers met in Paris to divide the spoils of war. Great Britain and France wanted to create the countries of Iraq and Iran in order to colonize their oil resources. Woodrow Wilson argued bitterly and unsuccessfully that, if you pen up three distinct groups like the Sunnis, Shia and Kurds within the same border, the results would be disasterous. Wilson was correct.

When we invaded and took control of Iraq in 2003, the Bush Administration kicked the Sunnis and Kurds out of the government and military. This left the Iranian influenced Shia in charge of the whole show. The Shia exacted their revenge on the old Saddam Sunni loyalists and the Sunnis are essentially enemies of the Shia controlled government. When ISIS rolled into town, the Sunnis either sided with this extreme Sunni sect or were indifferent. They feel that, if they fight ISIS, then only their Shia enemies in Baghdad would benefit and they, the Sunnis, would continue to be abused by the Shia controlled government.

The second problem has to do with Iran. Since the Shia Iraqis are too cowardly to confront ISIS, the Iranian Shia have entered Iraq and attacked and destroyed Sunni neighborhoods while attacking ISIS. Once the Iranian Shia remove ISIS from Sunni territory, they rape, plunder and murder the Sunni population. I think you can see now Kbear why the Sunnis refuse to fight ISIS. For Isis is the only thing standing between the Sunnis and their Shia oppressors. When Joe Biden, as a Senator, suggested splitting Iraq into three countries, one Shia, one Sunni and one Kurd, he was channeling Woodrow Wilson's wisdom. Sunnis see themselves as Sunnis. Shia see themselves as Shia and the Kurds see themselves as Kurds. None see themselves as Iraqis first. To waste more American blood and treasure on such irreconcilable differences is a fools game. It might be beneficial to our Military Industrial Complex, Saudi Arabia and Israel but offers little benefit to the American people.
Please substantiate that claim.
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Old May 28th, 2015, 04:16 AM   #36
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Please substantiate that claim.
I first heard of these Shia atrocities on the network news. It's worth reading the whole article. Essentially, when ISIS is chased off, the Shia, either Iranian or Iraqi forces trained by Iran, sweep in and commit atrocities upon the Sunni population. The Obama Administration knows this and this is one of the reasons why they must keep the Iranian militias at arms length. The Sunnis are outraged by this U.S. - Iranian dynamic.

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Militias implicated in mass killing of Iraqi Sunni population

That could prove a major impediment to addressing the grievances of Iraq's Sunni minority. The militias were implicated in the mass killing of Sunnis at the height of the country's sectarian carnage in 2006 and 2007 and have more recently been accused of brutalizing Sunni captives
.

Sunnis are also deeply suspicious of Shiite powerhouse Iran, which has played an outsized role in Iraqi affairs since the 2003 U.S.-led invasion that toppled Saddam Hussein's Sunni-dominated government.

"It is true that Iraq needs any kind of help in the current situation, but this help should be public and part of the international efforts," Sunni lawmaker Hamid al-Mutlaq told the AP. "This undeclared Iranian help harms national reconciliation and the sovereignty of Iraq."


Amnesty International said last month that Shia militias have abducted and killed scores of Sunni civilians with the tacit support of the government in retaliation for ISIS attacks.

Iraq's Prime Minister Haider al-Abadi has pledged to reign in the Shia militias and establish a national guard to mobilize Sunnis against the extremists. But it could take months to assemble such a force, and in the meantime Soleimani's militias are the best placed to aid Iraq's beleaguered military in regaining the initiative against ISIS.
ISIS mission: Shia militants key fighters in complicated Iraq scenario - Politics - CBC News
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Old May 28th, 2015, 04:29 AM   #37
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Another report regarding Shia militia atrocities upon the Sunni population. This is why the U.S. is never going to be able to resolve this;

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Human Rights Group Alleges Shiite Militias Killing Sunnis in Retaliation for ISIS Attacks

Human Rights Group Alleges Shiite Militias Killing Sunnis in Retaliation for ISIS Attacks

The Islamic State has been slaughtering Shiites by the thousands as it rampages through Iraq and Syria. A new report by Amnesty International claims that members of Iraq’s Shiite majority are retaliating with atrocities of their own.

The report, released on Tuesday, alleges that since the self-proclaimed Islamic State started grabbing territory in Iraq, Shiite militias supported by the Iraqi government have abducted and shot dozens of Sunni civilians, apparently in retaliation for the Sunni extremist group’s attacks on Shiites. Many of the Sunnis being killed have no apparent connection to the Islamic State, and just seem to have been in the wrong place at the wrong time, the report says.

"Scores of unidentified bodies have been discovered across the country handcuffed and with gunshot wounds to the head, indicating a pattern of deliberate execution-style killings," the international human rights group stated on Tuesday. The group’s report is based on six weeks of interviews with victims, observers, and government officials in central and northern Iraq between August and September.

The report finds that some captives have been killed even after their families paid ransoms worth tens of thousands of dollars to the militia groups. An Iraqi government official told Amnesty’s team that "those who are kidnapped by these [militiamen] have little chance of survival, no matter how much their families pay." Bodies of targeted Sunnis have later appeared in local morgues, some bearing injuries consistent with torture, such as bruises, open wounds, and burns, the report says.

The militias, which include Asaib Ahl al-Haq, the Badr Brigade, the Mahdi Army, and Kataib Hezbollah, several of which receive direct Iranian support, "have further risen in power and prominence since June, after the Iraqi army retreated, ceding nearly a third of the country to IS fighters," Amnesty reports. It adds that the attacks are occurring at a level not seen since the country’s worst period of civil violence, in 2006 and 2007.
Human Rights Group Alleges Shiite Militias Killing Sunnis in Retaliation for ISIS Attacks | Foreign Policy
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Old May 28th, 2015, 05:12 PM   #38
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I think it is probably a good choice for you. For the reasons myself and others have talked about. Do you not plan to get a college degree and try to become an officer? You're in HS now, right?
Not unless I get a scholarship. I'm not planning on college.
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You do know that a Machinist's Mate maintains the ships reduction gears and steam turbines and work in the hottest and deepest bowels of the ship?

Engineman is much better as you basically work on diesel engines of all types including small craft engines. You normally work in a shop instead a hot main engine room.

All sailors are trained in damage control.
Interesting. I think out of those two I'd really rather do Engineman, in that case.

By Damage Controlman, I meant the actual rate of DC.
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Old May 28th, 2015, 05:41 PM   #39
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Not unless I get a scholarship. I'm not planning on college.

Interesting. I think out of those two I'd really rather do Engineman, in that case.

By Damage Controlman, I meant the actual rate of DC.
I do not know what your scholastic strengths and interests are but if the military needs a certain specialty they will make you and officer and pay for your college expenses while you collect the normal pay & benefits of your rank. Going to college will be your duty station.

For example; if you're a bright kid but do not, for whatever reason qualify for a full scholarship, and want to be a doctor the military has a program where they accept you in as a 2ndLt. you go to medical school and when you complete your training your promoted to 1stLt.
Of course nothing is free. In return you owe the govt. 6 years minimum service as a doctor in whatever branch they need you where they need you.
Of course mu service goes back 45 years to the Vietnam War era. That program may no longer exist or be radically different.
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Old May 28th, 2015, 06:12 PM   #40
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I do not know what your scholastic strengths and interests are but if the military needs a certain specialty they will make you and officer and pay for your college expenses while you collect the normal pay & benefits of your rank. Going to college will be your duty station.

For example; if you're a bright kid but do not, for whatever reason qualify for a full scholarship, and want to be a doctor the military has a program where they accept you in as a 2ndLt. you go to medical school and when you complete your training your promoted to 1stLt.
Of course nothing is free. In return you owe the govt. 6 years minimum service as a doctor in whatever branch they need you where they need you.
Of course mu service goes back 45 years to the Vietnam War era. That program may no longer exist or be radically different.
Not sure if it works like that now, and that might only be for medical officers and the like. I don't really want to be a medical officer. I'd prefer to do something with engineering.
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