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Old October 18th, 2017, 09:27 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by Gordy View Post
Lol @ Muslim refugees.

That's the Palestinians' homeland. Why should they just go somewhere else?
Read and learn
The Counterfeit Arabs - Israel National News

A snipet but try to read the whole thing!

They are the Arabs who call themselves Palestinians.

They are indistinguishable from those Arabs who live in the surrounding artificial states such as Iraq, Jordan, Saudi Arabia or the other entities throughout the Middle East created by the colonial powers, France and Britain. Both powers were victorious after the Ottoman Turkish Empire lay defeated at the end of World War I.

Both of these European powers carved artificial borders across the corpse of what had been Turkey’s empire in the Middle East, and both France and Britain have left a resulting legacy of war and violence ever since. One such territory, previously occupied by Ottoman Turkey for 400 years, was the geographical entity known sometimes as Palestine.

But there is no such thing as a Palestinian people; no such thing as a Palestinian history; and no Palestinian language exists. There has never been any independent, sovereign Palestinian state in all of recorded history – let alone an Arab independent state of Palestine.

You will search in vain for Palestinian Arab coinage or Palestinian Arab archaeological artefacts specifically related to any Palestinian Arab king or ancient leader. But what you will find are coins, pottery, ancient scrolls, all providing conclusive, empirical and millennial evidence of Jewish civilization dotting the land known correctly as Israel – not Palestine.

The present-day so-called “Palestinians” are an Arab people sharing an overwhelmingly Muslim Arab culture, ethnicity and language identical to their fellow Arabs in the Middle East and North Africa, with few if any distinctions.

Yasser Arafat, the arch-terrorist, who imposed himself undemocratically upon the Arabs who call themselves Palestinians, was fond of repeating the absurd myth that Palestinian Arabs were descended from the Canaanites and the Philistines. As we know, the bigger the lie, the bigger the number of people will believe it. And so Arafat twisted history in order to disinherit the indigenous native people of the land: the Jews.

Last edited by Sensible; October 18th, 2017 at 09:29 AM.
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Old October 18th, 2017, 09:33 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by Sensible View Post
Read and learn
The Counterfeit Arabs - Israel National News

A snipet but try to read the whole thing!

They are the Arabs who call themselves Palestinians.

They are indistinguishable from those Arabs who live in the surrounding artificial states such as Iraq, Jordan, Saudi Arabia or the other entities throughout the Middle East created by the colonial powers, France and Britain. Both powers were victorious after the Ottoman Turkish Empire lay defeated at the end of World War I.

Both of these European powers carved artificial borders across the corpse of what had been Turkey’s empire in the Middle East, and both France and Britain have left a resulting legacy of war and violence ever since. One such territory, previously occupied by Ottoman Turkey for 400 years, was the geographical entity known sometimes as Palestine.

But there is no such thing as a Palestinian people; no such thing as a Palestinian history; and no Palestinian language exists. There has never been any independent, sovereign Palestinian state in all of recorded history – let alone an Arab independent state of Palestine.

You will search in vain for Palestinian Arab coinage or Palestinian Arab archaeological artefacts specifically related to any Palestinian Arab king or ancient leader. But what you will find are coins, pottery, ancient scrolls, all providing conclusive, empirical and millennial evidence of Jewish civilization dotting the land known correctly as Israel – not Palestine.

The present-day so-called “Palestinians” are an Arab people sharing an overwhelmingly Muslim Arab culture, ethnicity and language identical to their fellow Arabs in the Middle East and North Africa, with few if any distinctions.

Yasser Arafat, the arch-terrorist, who imposed himself undemocratically upon the Arabs who call themselves Palestinians, was fond of repeating the absurd myth that Palestinian Arabs were descended from the Canaanites and the Philistines. As we know, the bigger the lie, the bigger the number of people will believe it. And so Arafat twisted history in order to disinherit the indigenous native people of the land: the Jews.
I never said they weren't Arabs. Palestinians are a nationality, not an ethnic group. I also never said that Jews never lived there either.

Also, Palestinians are religiously diverse. There are Christians, Muslims, and Jews.

The point I'm trying to make is that both groups have valid claims to the land.
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Old October 18th, 2017, 04:26 PM   #33
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Arabs have been in Palestine for centuries, and were actually the majority population at one point: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demogr...estine_(region)

Also, the name "Palestine" was coined in by the Roman Empire after they expelled the Jews.

The fact of the matter is that both groups have valid claims to the land. Ignoring one group's claim, and only defending the other only perpetuates the conflict.
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Originally Posted by Gordy View Post
I never said they weren't Arabs. Palestinians are a nationality, not an ethnic group. I also never said that Jews never lived there either.

Also, Palestinians are religiously diverse. There are Christians, Muslims, and Jews.

The point I'm trying to make is that both groups have valid claims to the land.
yes they have been in that area for a long time. so have jews, christians, zoroastrians, and probably atheists although data was never collected. but there has never been a historic nation of palestine. it was a name on a map, much like sinai next to it, it was not a country, not a people, not a nation.

the nation of palestine only came into being in 1920 and was created for the purpose of being a jewish homeland. in 1948 it changed its name to israel.

imagine they hadnt changed their name. imagine the jewish homeland was still called palestine. what would the 'palestinians' be called?

or imagine palestine had never been created and it was called israel from the beginning. there would also not be any 'palestinians' around today, because there has never been a historic nation of palestine.

arafat was a fan of the notion 'make the lie big, tell it often, and people will believe it'. and thats the lie - the palestinians are a disposessed people who just want their land back.

remember the "palestinians" were allegedly kicked off 'their' land in 1948. find me a reference to the "palestinian refugees" prior to 1968.
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Old October 18th, 2017, 04:33 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by hot dragon View Post
yes they have been in that area for a long time. so have jews, christians, zoroastrians, and probably atheists although data was never collected. but there has never been a historic nation of palestine. it was a name on a map, much like sinai next to it, it was not a country, not a people, not a nation.
.
They are a people.

Quote:
the nation of palestine only came into being in 1920 and was created for the purpose of being a jewish homeland. in 1948 it changed its name to israel.
No it wasn't. It was carved out of the Ottoman Empire and made a British Mandate. The name "Palestine" dates back to Roman times.

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imagine they hadnt changed their name. imagine the jewish homeland was still called palestine. what would the 'palestinians' be called?
Ashkenazis are native to Europe, not the Middle East.

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or imagine palestine had never been created and it was called israel from the beginning. there would also not be any 'palestinians' around today, because there has never been a historic nation of palestine.
No there wouldn't, but that isn't what happened.

Quote:
arafat was a fan of the notion 'make the lie big, tell it often, and people will believe it'. and thats the lie - the palestinians are a disposessed people who just want their land back.
That's not a lie. They want their land back.

They wanted to destroy Israel because they saw the Israelis as dispossessors and settlers.

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remember the "palestinians" were allegedly kicked off 'their' land in 1948. find me a reference to the "palestinian refugees" prior to 1968
The West Bank and Gaza were ruled by Jordan and Egypt respectfully. They had a chance to be independent and nothing happened. I'm not saying that Arab leaders aren't corrupt and greedy idiots. I'm saying that both sides have valid claims to the land.

The Palestinians are just the political pawns of the Arab powers and have been since 1948. This doesn't make their claims to the land any less valid.

Last edited by Gordy; October 18th, 2017 at 04:37 PM.
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Old October 18th, 2017, 05:01 PM   #35
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They are a people.
they are people who left israel largely VOLUNTARILY because they knew there was massive arab army on the way to exterminate the jews. but they were not citizens of palestine. they were guest workers, citizens of egypt or syria or yemen. they never had any claim to the land.

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No it wasn't. It was carved out of the Ottoman Empire and made a British Mandate. The name "Palestine" dates back to Roman times.
the name sinai does too. there are no people called 'sinians'. there is no nation of sinai. likewise there was no nation of palestine, and no people called palestinians until the europeans created the jewish homeland.

Quote:
Ashkenazis are native to Europe, not the Middle East.
jews are everywhere. and everywhere they are jews.

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No there wouldn't, but that isn't what happened.
so you acknowledge that the people claiming 'palestine' is their historic land and birthright are lying. good, we agree.

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That's not a lie. They want their land back.
then go back to egypt, or yemen, or syria or wherever it was they came from. they did NOT come from what is now israel.

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They wanted to destroy Israel because they saw the Israelis as dispossessors and settlers.
they want to destry israel because they are islamists and islamists want to exterminate jews. in the 1940s genocide against jews was politically acceptable, and thats the terms they used; drive the jews into the sea. by the 1960s that kind of speech was politically incorrect and wasnt earning them any support internationally, they needed another reason to wage war. so they made one up: the historic arab nation of palestine, a poor dispossessed people who just want their land back. make the lie big, tell it often, and the west believed it.

Quote:
The West Bank and Gaza were ruled by Jordan and Egypt respectfully. They had a chance to be independent and nothing happened. I'm not saying that Arab leaders aren't corrupt and greedy idiots. I'm saying that both sides have valid claims to the land.

The Palestinians are just the political pawns of the Arab powers and have been since 1948. This doesn't make their claims to the land any less valid.
imagine the illegal immigrants in america, mexicans, some other latin americans, maybe some from various asian nations, got organised and demanded that california be given to them to be a separate nation under their rule. they claimed they had been there for generations, that they were disposessed, that they were traditionally 'californians' and had been for centuries, until the evil white invaders evicted them from their traditional lands. this story might be taken seriously by a foreigner if that foreigner was not familiar with the nuances of history. after all, dispossessed people are a real thing, someone with sympathy and enough ignornance might take the mexicans side.

replace mexicans with arabs, california with palestine, and you are right, its absurd, but it might be taken seriously by someone with a bit of sympathy and not enough knowledge.
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Old October 18th, 2017, 05:13 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by hot dragon View Post
they are people who left israel largely VOLUNTARILY because they knew there was massive arab army on the way to exterminate the jews. but they were not citizens of palestine. they were guest workers, citizens of egypt or syria or yemen. they never had any claim to the land.
Many of them were forcefully expelled. They'd lived there for centuries.

Quote:
the name sinai does too. there are no people called 'sinians'. there is no nation of sinai. likewise there was no nation of palestine, and no people called palestinians until the europeans created the jewish homeland.
Sinai is a part of Egypt. The Jewish homeland was created in 1948, before that it was just a strip of land that was carved out of the Ottoman Empire.

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jews are everywhere. and everywhere they are jews.
And the majority of them came from Europe.

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so you acknowledge that the people claiming 'palestine' is their historic land and birthright are lying. good, we agree.
That isn't what I said at all. You should read that again.

Quote:
then go back to egypt, or yemen, or syria or wherever it was they came from. they did NOT come from what is now israel.
Tell the Jews to go back to Europe, Ethiopia, etc. See where this is going?

Quote:
they want to destry israel because they are islamists and islamists want to exterminate jews. in the 1940s genocide against jews was politically acceptable, and thats the terms they used; drive the jews into the sea. by the 1960s that kind of speech was politically incorrect and wasnt earning them any support internationally, they needed another reason to wage war. so they made one up: the historic arab nation of palestine, a poor dispossessed people who just want their land back. make the lie big, tell it often, and the west believed it.
What a bunch of propaganda and nonsense.

Quote:
imagine the illegal immigrants in america, mexicans, some other latin americans, maybe some from various asian nations, got organised and demanded that california be given to them to be a separate nation under their rule. they claimed they had been there for generations, that they were disposessed, that they were traditionally 'californians' and had been for centuries, until the evil white invaders evicted them from their traditional lands. this story might be taken seriously by a foreigner if that foreigner was not familiar with the nuances of history. after all, dispossessed people are a real thing, someone with sympathy and enough ignornance might take the mexicans side.

replace mexicans with arabs, california with palestine, and you are right, its absurd, but it might be taken seriously by someone with a bit of sympathy and not enough knowledge.
It's funny because this is exactly the argument Israelis make against Arabs.

"It was our land thousands of years ago so we're entitled to it."
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Old October 18th, 2017, 05:31 PM   #37
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Many of them were forcefully expelled. They'd lived there for centuries.
some were, but many were not. the jewish homeland after 1920 was an economic boom, it was where the jobs were. lots of arabs moved there to work. they were not citizens, they were just employed by citizens. the arab armies made it clear they were planning a massive war of genocide when they would 'drive the jews into the sea'. the arab residents, some long term but the majority recently arrived guest workers, moved away to get out of the way of the arab army. these people, many of who were never citizens of palestine or israel are now claiming ownership.

its certainly NOT the case that there was a nation called palestine, full of happy peaceful arabs, and in 1948 the jews came along and threw them out of their land saying "this land is now israel and it belongs to us".
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Old October 18th, 2017, 05:40 PM   #38
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Sinai is a part of Egypt. The Jewish homeland was created in 1948, before that it was just a strip of land that was carved out of the Ottoman Empire.
sinai was never a nation. there has never been a people called 'sinians' its the name of a region, not of any people. palestine is the same. and all of the middle east was the ottoman empire prior to 1920. the french and english conquered it in WW1. the rules of war back then were different: if you won the war, you owned the land. so the french and english owned the middle east. they didnt really want it, so they drew some borders (lines in the sand) and created some countries and gave them away. one of those they called palestine, it was in the place where jews came from and have always lived, and everyone at the time agreed it was a RE- established jewish homeland.

Quote:
And the majority of them came from Europe.
there had been a movement among jews in europe in the late 1800s to migrate to the area now called israel. from 1870 up to 1920 there was a lot of jewish migration into what is now israel, and the establishment of a lot of new jewish settlements there. why that particular area of the world? because historically it has always been the jewish homeland. nobody seriously denies this.
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Old October 18th, 2017, 06:09 PM   #39
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2000 years ago the Romans occupied the entire region. Does that mean they have a claim on the land too ??

The Jews have been in the region, and in Jerusalem, for more than 3000 years. I think that gives them a pretty good claim to the area. Most of the non Jewish at the time were highly nomadic. Bedouins moving about the desert with little regard to borders, if or when they existed, and little care for governments. Only since WW2 and the rise of defined borders have they been restricted in their travels in the region.

There never has been a Palestinian state. Never a government of Palestine. Much less a tribe or people.

I like the guys I worked with in Kuwait years ago. They were in fact my favorites among the various groups I met over there. And one woman named Jihad was a real live living breathing Jessica Rabbit !!!!!! OMG !!!! Holy War INDEED. However, they are simply pawns in the larger Muslim world's game against Israel. Most oft he guy I met just want a home. They were not attached to the West Bank. And for the record they HATED Arafat.

Why should Israel, one of the smaller nations in the region have to give up nearly half it's territory to a people that don't like them, routinely attacks them and along with other arab nations calls for their total destruction ??
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Old October 18th, 2017, 06:20 PM   #40
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2000 years ago the Romans occupied the entire region. Does that mean they have a claim on the land too ??

The Jews have been in the region, and in Jerusalem, for more than 3000 years. I think that gives them a pretty good claim to the area. Most of the non Jewish at the time were highly nomadic. Bedouins moving about the desert with little regard to borders, if or when they existed, and little care for governments. Only since WW2 and the rise of defined borders have they been restricted in their travels in the region.

There never has been a Palestinian state. Never a government of Palestine. Much less a tribe or people.

I like the guys I worked with in Kuwait years ago. They were in fact my favorites among the various groups I met over there. And one woman named Jihad was a real live living breathing Jessica Rabbit !!!!!! OMG !!!! Holy War INDEED. However, they are simply pawns in the larger Muslim world's game against Israel. Most oft he guy I met just want a home. They were not attached to the West Bank. And for the record they HATED Arafat.

Why should Israel, one of the smaller nations in the region have to give up nearly half it's territory to a people that don't like them, routinely attacks them and along with other arab nations calls for their total destruction ??
So you like them... But you're sitting here denying that they even have an identity?

If Jews have a valid claim to the land then so do the Arabs.

Last edited by Gordy; October 18th, 2017 at 06:42 PM.
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