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Old October 19th, 2017, 03:20 AM   #51
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Automotive way of life

Whole humankind, its economy and way of life, depend on the continuous supply of oil from the Persian Gulf region, where most of the world’s reserves of easily recoverable oil are concentrated.

«Automotive way of life» is typical for all developed countries. Let try to offer Europeans and Americans to abandon the car. The politician who proposes such thing will immediately fail in the elections. And the circle of «motorized» countries and peoples is expanding.
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Old October 19th, 2017, 04:24 AM   #52
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I never said they weren't Arabs. Palestinians are a nationality, not an ethnic group. I also never said that Jews never lived there either.

Also, Palestinians are religiously diverse. There are Christians, Muslims, and Jews.

The point I'm trying to make is that both groups have valid claims to the land.
There was never a Palestine these people are made up
Think-Israel
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Old October 19th, 2017, 02:41 PM   #53
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There was never a Palestine these people are made up
Think-Israel
I'm not reading that Zionist propaganda. The Arabs have lived there for centuries. Jews weren't even anywhere near a majority until 1947.

That's the facts.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palest...y_demographics

Last edited by Gordy; October 19th, 2017 at 02:45 PM.
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Old October 19th, 2017, 04:07 PM   #54
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I'm not reading that Zionist propaganda. The Arabs have lived there for centuries. Jews weren't even anywhere near a majority until 1947.

That's the facts.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palest...y_demographics
we dont disagree with these points. we just acknowledge the other facts you are ignoring.

the jews 3 thousand years ago did occupy that territory, they were a majority, it was their country. then it was taken from them, it was occupied by muslims for centuries. then, under the authority of the league of nations with international agreement, it was re-created in 1920 to correct that historic wrong. nobody was evicted from their land (except jews in other countries) the muslims who lived there had never referred to themselves as palestinians, there was no such nation as palestine and never had been, palestine was a western creation, a new nation intended to be the jewish homeland. the people alive today who claim the title 'palestinian' are overwhelmingly descended from egyptians and yemeni and are not descended from anyone with a connection to israeli territory. these are also facts. it would be good if you would acknowledge these facts at some point rather than just pretend they arent facts. i know these facts contradict your simplistic narrative. i was once in your position, arguing the palestinian cause, until i did some digging and learned the true history of the region. i was wrong in the same way you are.
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Old October 19th, 2017, 04:13 PM   #55
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I'm not reading that Zionist propaganda.
do you actually think palestinian propaganda is honest?
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Old October 19th, 2017, 06:06 PM   #56
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do you actually think palestinian propaganda is honest?
I certainly don't. There are fair and balanced narratives out there. Go find them. Both sides have valid claims to the land. Seems you just want to continue to oppress the Palestinians, allow Israel to commit its atrocities unchecked, and thus, perpetuate the conflict. I'm trying to actually resolve it by taking both sides' arguments seriously.
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Old October 19th, 2017, 06:18 PM   #57
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There is literally no difference between the Israeli occupation and Apartheid South Africa. We just refuse to believe it because of this "never again", Christian Zionist nonsense we've been spoon-fed in our churches and in our media.

Israel uses rubber bullets against children, and bombs urban centers -- killing hundreds of people. These are human beings, placed in a situation that they can't even control. And nobody cares because, politics. The few Palestinians that I have talked to, tell me stories about how their ancestors had farms, land, etc. in there own communities before they were just forced to leave. Saying that these people don't have an identity, history, or culture is literally the most violent and inhumane shit you can possibly think. Why does Israel constantly get passes for the fucked up shit it often does?
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Old October 19th, 2017, 07:12 PM   #58
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I certainly don't. There are fair and balanced narratives out there. Go find them. Both sides have valid claims to the land. Seems you just want to continue to oppress the Palestinians, allow Israel to commit its atrocities unchecked, and thus, perpetuate the conflict. I'm trying to actually resolve it by taking both sides' arguments seriously.
i actually think a 2 state solution is the way to go. not because its based on historical reality, it isnt, but it is based on the current reality. the palestinians arent going to disappear, nor are they going to be happy without land, so sure, give them some, but demand they stop the violence.

this has been offered to the palestinians more than once, and they have rejected it. then they were unilaterally given gaza, and they use it as a base for more violence. gaza was a functional and productive place when the israelis had it. since the palestinians took over its become yet another failed islamic state.
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Old October 19th, 2017, 07:15 PM   #59
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i actually think a 2 state solution is the way to go. not because its based on historical reality, it isnt, but it is based on the current reality. the palestinians arent going to disappear, nor are they going to be happy without land, so sure, give them some, but demand they stop the violence.

this has been offered to the palestinians more than once, and they have rejected it. then they were unilaterally given gaza, and they use it as a base for more violence. gaza was a functional and productive place when the israelis had it. since the palestinians took over its become yet another failed islamic state.
They're still occupied. Gaza is literally an open-air prison. It's under a complete blockade.
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Old October 19th, 2017, 07:27 PM   #60
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There is literally no difference between the Israeli occupation and Apartheid South Africa
utter bullshit. in israel right now there are palestinians serving in parliament. palestinans have the vote. you think that happened in south africa under apartheid? you have swallowed palestinian propaganda hook, line and sinker.

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We just refuse to believe it because of this "never again", Christian Zionist nonsense we've been spoon-fed in our churches and in our media.
no, we dont believe it because it isnt true.

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Israel uses rubber bullets against children, and bombs urban centers -- killing hundreds of people. These are human beings, placed in a situation that they can't even control. And nobody cares because, politics. The few Palestinians that I have talked to, tell me stories about how their ancestors had farms, land, etc. in there own communities before they were just forced to leave.
yes, there are a few who have lived there for a long time. there are also lots of palestinians in israel who never left, who are still there and have been members of the community for generations.

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Saying that these people don't have an identity, history, or culture is literally the most violent and inhumane shit you can possibly think.
nobody has said that.

let me repeat:

NOBODY HAS SAID THAT.

NOBODY has said these people dont exist, or dont have a history, or arent people, EXCEPT YOU.

of course they have an identity, and a culture, and a history. its arab identity, arab culture, arab history. it cannot possibly be palestinian history because palestinian history didnt start until 1920 and when it did it was the jewish homeland.

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Why does Israel constantly get passes for the fucked up shit it often does?
nobody in the world gets more free passes for doing fucked up shit than islam. but jews are always the most frequent target of racial and religiously based prejudice.

it was said before, if we disarmed the palestinians today we would have peace tomorrow. if we disarmed the israelis today we would have genocide tomorrow.
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