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Old November 4th, 2017, 10:48 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by houseknight View Post
Nakba

I have explained in My post "Nakba", that the Palestinian Nakba was the result of an internal Palestinian quarrel between Al Husseini and Nashashibi clans. Nashashibis have agreed to the UN partition plan, and sought to include the Palestinian territories into united Palestine-Jordan state, under king Abdallah. The pupil of Hitler, Amin al Husseini, tried to derail this common Abdallah-Nashashibi project due to exacerbation of the conflict with the Jews. According to many testimonies, he, Amin al Husseini, ordered Palestinians to leave their homes. Finally, Amin al Husseini initiated the assassination of Jordan king Abdallah.
Another his purpose was to force on the Arab states a war against the forthcoming Jewish State, under pretext of saving the Palestinians from Catastrophe (Naqba).
I don't have time to go to your other thread now, but off the top, the Israeli stories of Palestinians being panicked and fleeing for no reason, or the land being empty or this new one you're talking about are bullshit, because the real history is documented regardless of whether it's ignored today!

Isn't it true that Palestinians left their homes during the 1948 war because their leaders asked them to do so? - Palestine Remembered

Quote:
[SIZE="3"]Isn't it true that Palestinians left their homes during the 1948 war because their leaders asked them to do so?[/SIZE

For the moment, let's assume that the Palestinian refugees were not terrorized out of their homes, but left based on their free will. The questions that many Palestinians ask:

Is that a good reason to confiscate their homes, farms, and businesses?
Is that a good reason to block their return to their homes?
Is that a good reason to nullify their citizenship in the country they were born?

Let us pose the question the other way around. For a very long time, the Zionist movement encouraged Jews from Europe and the Middle East to emigrate to Israel:

Is that a good reason to confiscate their homes, farms, and businesses in their respective countries?
Is that a good reason to block their return to their homes if they choose to do so?
Is that a good reason to nullify their citizenship in the countries they were born?

The just and fair answer to all of these questions is a big fat no. Nobody has the right to usurp the political and civil rights of another citizen PERIOD, regardless of the circumstances.

Neither the Israeli Army boot camps, nor the Israeli schools dares to disclose the truth to its subjects. The truth is most Palestinians were terrorized out of their homes, farms, and businesses. PalestineRemembered.com is fortunate to receive pictures portraying the terror that came upon the Palestinian people, click here to witness the ethnic cleansing and destruction of 'Imwas. It should be noted that what happened to 'Imwas by the Israeli Army was a copycat war crime to what already happened to other 450 Palestinian towns during the 1948 war.

Since the inception of Zionism, its leaders have been keen on creating a "Jewish State" based on a "Jewish majority" by mass immigration of Jews to Palestine, primarily European Jews fleeing from anti-Semitic Tsarist Russia and Nazi Germany. When a "Jewish majority" was impossible to achieve, based on Jewish immigration and natural growth, Zionist leaders (such as Ben Gurion, Moshe Sharett, Ze'ev Jabotinsky, and Chaim Weizmann) concluded that "population transfer" was the only solution to what they referred to as the "Arab Problem." Year after year, the plan to cleanse Palestine away from its indigenous people became known as the "transfer solution." David Ben-Gurion, the first Israeli Prime Minister, eloquently articulated the "transfer solution" as the following:

In a joint meeting between the Jewish Agency Executive and Zionist Action Committee on June 12th, 1938:

"With compulsory transfer we [would] have a vast area [for settlement] .... I support compulsory transfer. I don't see anything immoral in it." (Righteous Victims p. 144).

In a speech addressing the Central Committee of the Histadrut on December 30, 1947:

"In the area allocated to the Jewish State there are not more than 520,000 Jews and about 350,000 non-Jews, mostly Arabs. Together with the Jews of Jerusalem, the total population of the Jewish State at the time of its establishment, will be about one million, including almost 40% non-Jews. such a [population] composition does not provide a stable basis for a Jewish State. This [demographic] fact must be viewed in all its clarity and acuteness. With such a [population] composition, there cannot even be absolute certainty that control will remain in the hands of the Jewish majority .... There can be no stable and strong Jewish state so long as it has a Jewish majority of only 60%." (Expulsion Of The Palestinians, p. 176 & Benny Morris p. 2

And on February 8th, 1948, Ben-Gurion also stated to the Mapai Council:

"From your entry into Jerusalem, through Lifta, Romema [East Jerusalem Palestinian neighborhood]. . . there are no [Palestinian] Arabs. One hundred percent Jews. Since Jerusalem was destroyed by the Romans, it has not been Jewish as it is now. In many [Palestinian] Arab neighborhoods in the west one sees not a single [Palestinian] Arab. I do not assume that this will change. . . . What had happened in Jerusalem. . . . is likely to happen in many parts of the country. . . in the six, eight, or ten months of the campaign there will certainly be great changes in the composition of the population in the country." (Expulsion Of The Palestinians, p. 180-181)

In a speech addressing the Zionist Action Committee on April 6th, 1948:

"We will not be able to win the war if we do not, during the war, populate upper and lower, eastern and western Galilee, the Negev and Jerusalem area ..... I believe that war will also bring in its wake a great change in the distribution of Arab population." (Expulsion Of The Palestinians, p. 181)

In speech to the Jewish Agency on June 12, 1948, Ben-Gurion stated:

"I am for compulsory transfer; I don't see anything immoral in it." For tactical reasons, he was against proposing it at the moment, but "we have to state the principle of compulsory transfer without insisting on its immediate implementation." (Simha Flapan, p. 103)


Click here for more "Transfer" (Ethnic Cleansing) quotes from Zionist leaders.

For the moment, assume that the above evidence is nothing but an Arab propaganda. We ask the reader to contemplate what Yitzhak Rabin, one of Israel's Prime Ministers, had written in his diary soon after the occupation of Lydda and al-Ramla on July 10th-11th, 1948:

"After attacking Lydda [later called Lod] and then Ramla, .... What would they do with the 50,000 civilians living in the two cities ..... Not even Ben-Gurion could offer a solution .... and during the discussion at operation headquarters, he [Ben-Gurion] remained silent, as was his habit in such situations. Clearly, we could not leave [Lydda's] hostile and armed populace in our rear, where it could endangered the supply route [to the troops who were] advancing eastward.
Ben-Gurion would repeat the question: What is to be done with the population?, waving his hand in a gesture which said: Drive them out! [garesh otem in Hebrew]. 'Driving out' is a term with a harsh ring, .... Psychologically, this was on of the most difficult actions we undertook". (Soldier Of Peace, p. 140-141 & Benny Morris, p. 207) .

Later, Rabin underlined the cruelty of the operation as mirrored in the reaction of his soldiers. He stated during an interview (which is still censored in Israeli publications to this day) with David Shipler from the New York Times on October 22, 1979:

"Great Suffering was inflicted upon the men taking part in the eviction action. [They] included youth-movement graduates who had been inculcated with values such as international brotherhood and humaneness. The eviction action went beyond the concepts they were used to. There were some fellows who refused to take part. . . Prolonged propaganda activities were required after the action . . . to explain why we were obliged to undertake such a harsh and cruel action." (Simha Flapan, p. 101)

Just before the 1948 war, the residents of the twin cities, Lydda and al-Ramla, almost constituted 20% of the total urban population in central Palestine, inclusive of Tel-Aviv. Currently, the former residents and their descendents number at least a half a million, who mostly live in deplorable refugee camps in and around Amman (Jordan) and Ramallah (the occupied West Bank). According to Rabin, the decision to ethnically cleanse the twin cities was an agonizing decision, however, his guilty conscious did not stop him from placing a similar order against three nearby villages ('Imwas, Yalu, and Bayt Nuba ) 19 years later. The exodus from Lydda and al- Ramla was portrayed firsthand by Ismail Shammout, the renowned Palestinians artist from Lydda itself, click here to view his exodus gallery. To learn more about the ethnic cleansing of Lydda and al-Ramla based on declassified Israeli archives, we suggest clicking here as well .

In order to excuse themselves from any responsibility of war crimes, Zionists have concocted a myth that Palestinians were ordered by their leaders to abandon their homes. As it will be proven below, this version of events was conclusively proven wrong based on Israeli declassified documents. According to the Israeli historian Benny Morris:

'In general, during the first months of the war until April 1948 the Palestinian leadership struggled, if not very manfully, against the exodus: "The AHC [Arab Higher Committee] decided .... to adopt measures to weaken the exodus by imposing restrictions, penalties, threats, propaganda in the press [and] on the radio .... [The AHC] tried to obtain the help of neighboring countries in this context ..... [The AHC] especially tried to prevent the flight of army-age young males," according to IDF intelligence'. (Benny Morris, p. 60)

'Whatever the reasoning and attitude of the Arab states' leaders, I have found no contemporary evidence to show that either the leaders of the Arab states or the Mufti [Hajj Amin al-Husseini] ordered or directly encouraged the mass exodus during April [1948]. It may be worth noting that for decades the policy of the Palestinian Arab leaders had been to hold fast to the soil of Palestine and to resist the eviction and displacement of Arab communities'. (Benny Morris, p. 66)

'In Kafr Saba [early May 1948], the locals, under threat from Haganah attack, wanted to leave, but were ordered to stay by the ALA [Arab Liberation Army] garrison. According to Haganah sources, the ALA, with the population of Ramallah about to take flight, blocked all roads into the Triangle: "The Arab military leaders are trying to stem the flood of refugees and taking stern and ruthless measures against them." Arab radio broadcast, picked up by the Haganah, conveyed orders from the ALA to all Arabs who had left their homes to "return within three days. The commander of Ramallah assembled the mukhtars [official leaders] from the area" and demanded they strengthen morale in the their villages. The local ALA commanders turned back trucks which were coming to take families out of Ramallah. .... Haganah intelligence on May 6 reported that "Radio Jerusalem in its Arabic broadcast (14:00 hours, 5 May) and Damascus [Radio] (19:45 hours, 5 May) announced in the name of the Supreme Headquarters: 'Every Arab must defend his home and property .... Those who leave their places will be punished and their homes will be destroyed.'. The announcement was signed by [Fawzi al-]Qawukji.' (Benny Morris, p. 68-69)

Similarly, Simha Flapan (the Israeli writer and politician) stated according to declassified Israeli document and to the November 6th, 1948 edition of the Israeli newspaper Davar:

". . . after April 1948, the flight acquired massive dimensions. Abd al-Rahman Azzam Pasha, secretary general of the Arab League, and King Abdullah both issued public calls to the Arabs not to leave their homes. Fawzi al-Qawukji, commander of the Arab Liberation Army, was give instructions to stop the flight by force and to requisition transport for this purpose. The Arab government decided to allow entry only to women and children and to send back all men of military age (between eighteen and fifty). Mohammad Adib al-Umri, deputy director of Ramallah broadcasting station, appealed to the Arabs to stop the flight from Jenin, Tulkarm, and other towns in the Triangle that were bombed by the Israelis. On May 10, Radio Jerusalem broadcasted orders on its Arab program from Arab commanders and AHC to stop the mass flight from Jerusalem and the vicinity." (Simha Flapan, p. 86-87)


Click here to view the original letter sent by the Arab Higher Committee [AHC] on March 8, 1948 urging the Egyptian government to deny entry for the Palestinian refugees unless in emergency situations.
'The various National Committees issued bans on flight. The Ramle National Committee set up pickets at the exits to the town to prevent Arabs departing. The inhabitants of the villages east of Majdal (Beit Daras, the Sawafirs, ..etc) were warned not to allow in with their belongings. On 15 May [1948], Faiz Idris, AHC's "inspector for public safety," issued ordered to militiamen to help the invading Arab armies and to fight against " the Fifth column and the rumor-mongers, who are causing the flight of the Arab population' (Benny Morris, p. 69)

'On 10-11 May [1948], the AHC [Arab Higher Committee] called on officials, doctors, and engineers who had left the country to return on 14-15 May, repeating the call, warned the the officials who did not return would lose their " moral right to hold these administrative jobs in the future." Arab governments began to bar entry to the refugee -as happened, for example, on the Lebanese border in the middle of May'. (Benny Morris, p. 69)

'The fall of Safad and the flight of its inhabitants shocked the [Palestinian] Arab villagers of the Hula Valley, to the north. [Yegal] Allon launched a psychological warfare campaign ("If you don't flee immediately, you will all be slaughtered, your daughters will be raped," are the like), and almost all the villagers fled to Lebanon and Syria.' (Righteous Victims, p. 213)

According to a Jewish Agency's Arab section report from January 3, 1948, at the beginning of the flight:

"The Arab exodus from Palestine continues, mainly to the countries of the West. Of late, the Arab Higher Executive has succeeded in imposing close scrutiny on those leaving for Arab countries in the Middle East." Prior to the declaration of the "Jewish state," the Arab League's political committee, meeting in Sofar, Lebanon, recommended that the Arab states " the doors to . . . women and children and old people if events in Palestine make it necessary." (Simha Flapan, p. 85)

Farther proof of ethnic cleansing (as if more evidence is needed) comes from Glubb Pasha, the British officer of the Jordanian army during the 1948 war, was on the spot at the time and therefore was in a position to know what is going on. He said:

"The story which Jewish publicity at first persuaded the world to accept , that the [Palestinian] Arab refugees left voluntarily, is not true. Voluntary emigrants do not leave their homes with only the clothes they stand in. People who decided to leave house do not do so in such a hurry that they lose other members of their family -- husband losing sight of his wife, or parents of their children. The fact is that the majority left in panic flight, to escape massacre. They were in fact helped on their way by the occasional massacres--not of very many at a time, but just enough to keep them running." (Bitter Harvest, p. 95)

As Moshe Sharett was ending his career in the mid-1950s, he came to the conclusion that Israel cannot be ruled without deceit as if it's essential for the Jewish state's survival. He wrote just before resigning:

"I have learned that the state of Israel cannot be ruled in our generation without deceit and adventurism. These are historical facts that cannot be altered. . . In the end, history will justify both the stratagems and deceit and the acts of adventurism. All I know is that I, Moshe Sharett, am not capable of them, and I am therefore unsuited to lead this country" (Simha Flapan, p. 52-53). In other word, what Moshe Sharett is saying that the "Jewish state" is incapable of surviving without lying to its citizens and the rest of the world; in fact it has been national security for the "Jewish state" to do so. This form of carefully crafted deception and lies is known in Israel by its Hebrew name: The art of Hasbarah.

Finally, it must be emphasized that Israel tried Adolf Eichmann for atrocities committed as a Nazi leader, it included charges of forcible expulsion (ethnic cleansing), which were classified as war crimes and crimes against humanity. It's ironic how often Israelis and Zionists are selective in the interpretation of war crimes against humanity in a way that fits their political agenda.
Isn't it true that Palestinians left their homes during the 1948 war because their leaders asked them to do so? - Palestine Remembered

As late as 1946, Jaffa is the only region in Palestine with a majority Jewish population. Haifa is close but not 50%....and that's why the ethnic cleansing had to continue and force the Arab population out into their own diaspora...which continues to this day btw! Israel may not think Gaza is worth a crap...since it has no resources, other than offshore gas reserves that Israel is claiming, and will soon run out of water supplies, but the West Bank has been gradually ethnically cleansed and most Jews moving to Israel are told that's where they have to go for affordable housing if they want to stay! Back in 1946, this how the population demographics looked:


Why are they so angry???????
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Old November 7th, 2017, 04:52 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by right to left View Post
I don't have time to go to your other thread now, but off the top, the Israeli stories of Palestinians being panicked and fleeing for no reason, or the land being empty or this new one you're talking about are bullshit, because the real history is documented regardless of whether it's ignored today!

Isn't it true that Palestinians left their homes during the 1948 war because their leaders asked them to do so? - Palestine Remembered


Isn't it true that Palestinians left their homes during the 1948 war because their leaders asked them to do so? - Palestine Remembered

As late as 1946, Jaffa is the only region in Palestine with a majority Jewish population. Haifa is close but not 50%....and that's why the ethnic cleansing had to continue and force the Arab population out into their own diaspora...which continues to this day btw! Israel may not think Gaza is worth a crap...since it has no resources, other than offshore gas reserves that Israel is claiming, and will soon run out of water supplies, but the West Bank has been gradually ethnically cleansed and most Jews moving to Israel are told that's where they have to go for affordable housing if they want to stay! Back in 1946, this how the population demographics looked:


Why are they so angry???????
Here is the text of the announcement of the commander of the Haganah forces in the Haifa district, from 22.04.1948 (I’ve photographed this announcement in the city museum of Haifa):



Announcement of the commander of the Haganah №2

Our units, which are fighting against Arab gangs in the city (of Haifa), strike at the enemy and penetrate the nests of killers in the Arab neighborhoods to eradicate them, during the catching up they come across places sacred to the Arabs, as well as numerous abandoned houses, in which remained the property.

Therefore, I order the soldiers of the Haganah and the Jewish inhabitants of Haifa:

A) It is necessary to treat with respect all holy places of the Arabs and in no way to defile them. Do everything possible to avoid entering the mosque, not to fight from within, not to place our soldiers in them. God forbid to offend the deep religious feelings of the Arab people. We are fighting a war against an armed enemy, and no one should look for an excuse to «defuse» their feelings, causing trauma to the feelings of the neighboring people.
No Jew in the city should take from the property abandoned by the Arabs. Any property abandoned by the owners in the territory of the fights will be placed under supervision and returned in due time to the lawful masters.
Our war is fair and clean, no one should desecrate it with indecent actions. Those who violate this order will be held accountable and punished.

22.4.48 The commander of the Hagana

In Haifa



Obviously, the commander of the Hagana of Haifa district expects the return of refugees, otherwise how can he return the abandoned property? And why should observe the sanctity of mosques, if Muslims do not return?

A real-life researcher, Benny Morris, claims on the basis of documents that the commander of the Carmeli brigade, Moshe Carmel, asked the leaders of the Muslim and Christian communities to keep the Arabs from fleeing. Then the Muslim representative explained that their leader Amin al Hussaini ordered the evacuation of the Arabs from Haifa, and they would carry out the order. Then, the Christian representative explained in secret that the Muslims are exerting pressure on him, and he does not dare disobey. Christians, like Muslims, were evacuated from Haifa by all available means of transport.

The Palestinian Nakba was the result of an internal Palestinian quarrel between Al Husseini and Nashashibi clans. Nashashibis sought to include the Palestinian territories into united Palestine-Jordan state, under king Abdallah. The pupil of Hitler, Amin al Husseini, tried to derail this common Abdallah-Nashashibi project due to exacerbation of the conflict with the Jews. According to many testimonies, he, Amin al Husseini, ordered Palestinians to leave their homes. Finally, Amin al Husseini initiated the assassination of Jordan king Abdallah.
Another his purpose was to force on the Arab states a war against the forthcoming Jewish State, under pretext of saving the Palestinians from Catastrophe (Naqba).
Benny Morris mentions Al Husseini's order to save families, while militants were ordered to stay in abandoned villages for military purposes.

Generally, the "inexplicable" Palestinian panic has more than reasonable explanation: the Arabs knew well, what a "solution" prepared their leader. They were unwilling to risk their lives for his "noble" goal. They sought temporary shelter until Arab armies and volunteers, together with Husseini's "Army of Jihad" will perform planned slaughter of the Jews. (Amin al Husseini called his 50.000 men Palestinian forces «The Army of Holy War» or «The Army of Jihad»).
By the way, Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood had sent their force to Negev with the same purpose. However, this force remained unused in the rear of Egyptian army.
For Muslims, who worship the Holy Qur’an, Muhammad’s conflict with the Jews continues up to this day, in the form of the Israeli-Islamic conflict. The Palestine-Israel conflict is only small part of the Holy War (Jihad) against the Jews.
Regarding Moshe Sharet fear of adventures, I refer it to forthcoming 1956-7 Sinai campaign.

Last edited by houseknight; November 7th, 2017 at 04:57 AM.
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Old November 8th, 2017, 11:24 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by houseknight View Post
Here is the text of the announcement of the commander of the Haganah forces in the Haifa district, from 22.04.1948 (I’ve photographed this announcement in the city museum of Haifa):



Announcement of the commander of the Haganah №2

Our units, which are fighting against Arab gangs in the city (of Haifa), strike at the enemy and penetrate the nests of killers in the Arab neighborhoods to eradicate them, during the catching up they come across places sacred to the Arabs, as well as numerous abandoned houses, in which remained the property.

Therefore, I order the soldiers of the Haganah and the Jewish inhabitants of Haifa:

A) It is necessary to treat with respect all holy places of the Arabs and in no way to defile them. Do everything possible to avoid entering the mosque, not to fight from within, not to place our soldiers in them. God forbid to offend the deep religious feelings of the Arab people. We are fighting a war against an armed enemy, and no one should look for an excuse to «defuse» their feelings, causing trauma to the feelings of the neighboring people.
No Jew in the city should take from the property abandoned by the Arabs. Any property abandoned by the owners in the territory of the fights will be placed under supervision and returned in due time to the lawful masters.
Our war is fair and clean, no one should desecrate it with indecent actions. Those who violate this order will be held accountable and punished.

22.4.48 The commander of the Hagana

In Haifa



Obviously, the commander of the Hagana of Haifa district expects the return of refugees, otherwise how can he return the abandoned property? And why should observe the sanctity of mosques, if Muslims do not return?

A real-life researcher, Benny Morris, claims on the basis of documents that the commander of the Carmeli brigade, Moshe Carmel, asked the leaders of the Muslim and Christian communities to keep the Arabs from fleeing. Then the Muslim representative explained that their leader Amin al Hussaini ordered the evacuation of the Arabs from Haifa, and they would carry out the order. Then, the Christian representative explained in secret that the Muslims are exerting pressure on him, and he does not dare disobey. Christians, like Muslims, were evacuated from Haifa by all available means of transport.
Did you even consider that your narrative of events only quotes the testimony of one side-the Israelis? Worse, is that you fill it with quotes of one of the Jewish militia/paramilitary forces-the Haganah, presenting their philosophy and proclaimed rules of engagement, which....assuming they rigorously followed them, does NOT mention that the Haganah split in 1931, with the more militant and aggressive Irgun, which not only went on the attack against Arab villages, but also committed terrorist attacks against the British Occupational Government(bombing of the King David Hotel in Jerusalem)...apparently because they were getting impatient for the British to leave and couldn't carry out a mass ethnic cleansing as long as British soldiers were running around! Without that mass expulsion of Palestinian Arabs, a nation of Israel would have been much, much smaller and had less land to grow on, even with the rapid influx of Jews coming in from Europe after WWII.
Quote:
The Palestinian Nakba was the result of an internal Palestinian quarrel between Al Husseini and Nashashibi clans. Nashashibis sought to include the Palestinian territories into united Palestine-Jordan state, under king Abdallah. The pupil of Hitler, Amin al Husseini, tried to derail this common Abdallah-Nashashibi project due to exacerbation of the conflict with the Jews. According to many testimonies, he, Amin al Husseini, ordered Palestinians to leave their homes. Finally, Amin al Husseini initiated the assassination of Jordan king Abdallah.
Another his purpose was to force on the Arab states a war against the forthcoming Jewish State, under pretext of saving the Palestinians from Catastrophe (Naqba).
Benny Morris mentions Al Husseini's order to save families, while militants were ordered to stay in abandoned villages for military purposes.

Generally, the "inexplicable" Palestinian panic has more than reasonable explanation: the Arabs knew well, what a "solution" prepared their leader. They were unwilling to risk their lives for his "noble" goal. They sought temporary shelter until Arab armies and volunteers, together with Husseini's "Army of Jihad" will perform planned slaughter of the Jews. (Amin al Husseini called his 50.000 men Palestinian forces «The Army of Holy War» or «The Army of Jihad»).
By the way, Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood had sent their force to Negev with the same purpose. However, this force remained unused in the rear of Egyptian army.
For Muslims, who worship the Holy Qur’an, Muhammad’s conflict with the Jews continues up to this day, in the form of the Israeli-Islamic conflict. The Palestine-Israel conflict is only small part of the Holy War (Jihad) against the Jews.
Regarding Moshe Sharet fear of adventures, I refer it to forthcoming 1956-7 Sinai campaign.
The standard Zionist narrative of events on why Palestinians fled en-mass is completely idiotic and counter-intuitive! People flee their homes, leaving everything behind NOT because they fear an enemy that has been killing and committing warcrimes in their area, but because tribal chiefs tell them to leave so they can better defend the territory. It makes no logical sense because it cannot make any sense for any reasons! Unless the Palestinians had an air force and were planning a massive bombing campaign, there would be no reason for wanting civilians to leave! Would people just flee into the night if there were no tangible reasons for them to believe they faced imminent death?
One of the few people I have known and spoke to personally on the subject of genocide and forced exodus is a Guatemalan former neighbor of mine who spoke to me several times about his family's experience of having to take flight from their northeast village in the middle of the night across the Mexican border. This was because of the US-CIA-created and managed Contra rebels...who, after determining that the locals would rather provide cover for marxist guerillas than give the Government information they wanted. So, they applied the same "counter-insurgency" tactics the CIA was trying to develop 20 years earlier in Vietnam....which were mostly about terrorizing and when deemed necessary, clearing uncooperative populations from a terrain that has few open spaces to monitor movements. So, as a 10 year old at the time, my friend was aware that his family and neighbors were posting lookouts watching the trails and natural chokepoints that would betray the movements of invaders coming in to attack them. The people were already preparing and re-stocking small travel bags of essentials, food and water that could be carried quickly when they had to take flight. One night they were woken and had to flee. A complication arose because their grandmother was staying with a sick friend. My friend's eldest brother told them to leave and that he would go get their grandmother to safety....and neither were ever seen again. They had to start brand new lives in Mexico, and later some went on to the US and Canada.
So, for me, when I hear stories of refugees fleeing either today or in the past, my first thoughts aren't: what color are they, what's their religion etc., it's that they must have had damn good reasons to just upend their lives and head off to a brand new country, with unknown cultures and languages that they will have to learn and navigate through. So, long story short, call me a skeptic on the zionist narrative that tries to absolve itself of all blame for starting a settler colony and never coming to terms with what they have done and what they've created!

The Palestinian source I quoted from previously asked some simple questions that your standard Zionist alibi for the Nakba doesn't address. Repeating:

If they fled because of their own leaders and NOT because of killing and ethnic cleansing carried out by Zionist paramilitaries:

Is that a good reason to confiscate their homes, farms, and businesses?
Is that a good reason to block their return to their homes?
Is that a good reason to nullify their citizenship in the country they were born?

Because the history that cannot be denied is they were never compensated for their losses, or allowed to return home after the creation of the State of Israel. They ended up as refugees with no citizenship anywhere, and some have remained refugees while others joined the Palestinian diaspora that has taken them all over the world.
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Old November 8th, 2017, 12:06 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by right to left View Post
I don't have time to go to your other thread now, but off the top, the Israeli stories of Palestinians being panicked and fleeing for no reason, or the land being empty or this new one you're talking about are bullshit, because the real history is documented regardless of whether it's ignored today!

Isn't it true that Palestinians left their homes during the 1948 war because their leaders asked them to do so? - Palestine Remembered


Isn't it true that Palestinians left their homes during the 1948 war because their leaders asked them to do so? - Palestine Remembered

As late as 1946, Jaffa is the only region in Palestine with a majority Jewish population. Haifa is close but not 50%....and that's why the ethnic cleansing had to continue and force the Arab population out into their own diaspora...which continues to this day btw! Israel may not think Gaza is worth a crap...since it has no resources, other than offshore gas reserves that Israel is claiming, and will soon run out of water supplies, but the West Bank has been gradually ethnically cleansed and most Jews moving to Israel are told that's where they have to go for affordable housing if they want to stay! Back in 1946, this how the population demographics looked:


Why are they so angry???????
Go join them and throw the occupiers out!!!
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Old November 8th, 2017, 03:14 PM   #25
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what was the arab position on palestine from 1948 to 1968?

hint: its NOT that the palestinians want their homeland back.
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Old November 8th, 2017, 03:36 PM   #26
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Israel is the "promised land" for the world's 3 major religions. They each think the others don't have a right to exist. Anyone see a problem here?
Thanks from Sabcat and Gordy
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Old November 8th, 2017, 05:01 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by BS Filter View Post
There is no such thing as a "Palestinian". They're Jordanians, Egyptians, etc. Palestine is a region, and never was a state or people. Arafat was an Egyptian. The Palestinians are pawns, nothing more.
This isn't entirely true.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yasser_Arafat

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Arafat was born to Palestinian parents in Cairo, Egypt, where he spent most of his youth and studied at the University of King Fuad I. While a student, he embraced Arab nationalist and anti-Zionist ideas. Opposed to the 1948 creation of the State of Israel, he fought alongside the Muslim Brotherhood during the 1948 Arab–Israeli War. Returning to Cairo, he served as president of the General Union of Palestinian Students from 1952 to 1956.
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Old November 8th, 2017, 05:09 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by Quigley View Post
Go join them and throw the occupiers out!!!
Not necessary.

Arabs are the fastest growing demographic in the country.
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Old November 8th, 2017, 07:44 PM   #29
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Look up the word "Nakba" which your zionist sources are trying to cleanse off the internet! It's like American history...force people off the land then write about all the new virgin land you discovered provided by God. No wonder American rightists feel such close affinity with Israel!
Knakba was a event that the Palestinians created for themselves, and a term inaugurated by Yasser Arafat. They could have chosen to live in harmony side by side with a Jewish State, but they wanted it all even though it was not ever their land to begin with. It is the ancestral homeland of the Jews.

Tell us, WHOM did the Romans exile from Judea, was it Jews or "Palestinians"?

The word "Palestine" was the product of a Roman attempt to erase the word JUDEA from the map after the Jewish Revolt. The Roman province of Judea was combined with the province of Syria and renamed Syria Palestina.
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Old November 9th, 2017, 11:41 AM   #30
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Knakba was a event that the Palestinians created for themselves, and a term inaugurated by Yasser Arafat. They could have chosen to live in harmony side by side with a Jewish State, but they wanted it all even though it was not ever their land to begin with. It is the ancestral homeland of the Jews.

Tell us, WHOM did the Romans exile from Judea, was it Jews or "Palestinians"?

The word "Palestine" was the product of a Roman attempt to erase the word JUDEA from the map after the Jewish Revolt. The Roman province of Judea was combined with the province of Syria and renamed Syria Palestina.
The HAMAS' Charter doesn't mention ancestry. It substantiates Palestinian right to annihilate Israel on the "legal" basis of some letter, issued by Caliph shortly after conquer of Iraq and Syria by Muslim army. Caliph instructs Muslim conquerors, that Muslims turn legal owners of conquered lands, however, Christians and Jews may continue to exploit the fields under condition, that they obey to Muslims and pay taxes. The letter doesn't meant Palestine. That is, from HAMAS' point of view, Palestine is part of Syria.
When Palestinians vote for HAMAS', they vote for the point of view, mentioned above.

Last edited by houseknight; November 9th, 2017 at 11:54 AM.
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