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Old January 5th, 2018, 09:35 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by TNVolunteer73 View Post
Yes, Israel has not burned, destroyed or blocked access to Christian and Muslim Holy Sites.

Muslims on the other hand Burn Christian Churches, synagogues and executed worshipers
That is the point that i do not think has gotten nearly enough attention.

Are these international religious destinations operated differently when under Muslim rule than they are under Jewish?


If i had to guess i would say that the Muslims would make it very difficult for non muslims to gain access and when it was granted it would be very selective and the women would have to put on bee keeper outfits.

The Jews would just charge a fee.


*shrug*
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Old January 5th, 2018, 09:38 PM   #22
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That is the point that i do not think has gotten nearly enough attention.

Are these international religious destinations operated differently when under Muslim rule than they are under Jewish?


If i had to guess i would say that the Muslims would make it very difficult for non muslims to gain access and when it was granted it would be very selective and the women would have to put on bee keeper outfits.

The Jews would just charge a fee.


*shrug*
Good point.

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Old January 5th, 2018, 09:51 PM   #23
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Jews ARE PALESTINIANS.. you see Palestine was NEVER a country,, it was a ROMAN PROVENCE.. which Included Israel. So no they cannot make the counter argument
So, how many of these other Palestinians are represented in Israel's government?
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Old January 5th, 2018, 09:54 PM   #24
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So, how many of these other Palestinians are represented in Israel's government?
There are Palestinians in the Israeli Knesset.

What you need to ask how many Jews are in the Palestinian Authority
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Old January 5th, 2018, 09:54 PM   #25
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So, how many of these other Palestinians are represented in Israel's government?
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The Star of David on Israel’s flag is no surprise in a Knesset member’s office. What seems unusual within Israel’s parliament is just two yards away: an engraved icon bearing an Islamic prayer in Arabic script. “I am Israeli,” says Issawi Frej, an Arab member of the Knesset (MK). “I am a citizen here. I want to be here.” The Meretz-party representative also tells me: “The American people don’t understand that there are 1.5 million Palestinian Arabs who live inside Israel, and who are Israelis with rights. Americans think about the Palestinian Authority only, and no one thinks about us.” Elected last January, Frej says he wants to increase economic growth in Israel’s Arab communities. “We don’t want the National Insurance to give us a cart of money just to eat. We want to be part of the economy, to give to the economy, to translate our force and our power in order to give a push to the local economy. That’s what we want.” Frej, the eldest of a dozen children and father of seven, is one of twelve Arab MKs. They and other Arabs hold prominent posts in Israel’s courts, diplomatic corps, and armed forces. While powerful Israeli Jews clearly outnumber powerful Israeli Arabs, journalists worldwide generally overlook the latter. Leaders like Frej disprove the tired, toxic rhetoric about “Jim Crovitz”–style conditions that Israel’s Arabs supposedly suffer at the hands of Jewish oppressors, as if Israel were Mississippi on the Mediterranean. No one can dismiss these Arab Israeli parliamentarians as window dressing. During the 120-seat Knesset’s debate on allowing a national referendum on a future Palestinian accord, Arab Israeli MK Jamal Zahalka told government minister Yuval: “You’re an enemy of peace. We were here before you, and we’ll be here after you.” Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, who attended the debate, snapped: “The first part is not true, and the second part will never happen.” Zahalka and two other Arab Israeli MKs then protested the measure by standing silently at the Knesset podium. Zahalka also taped his mouth shut, leading MK Penina Tamanu-Shata to quip, “Careful with the mustache.” While these Arab MKs’ comments may rankle most Israelis and their American friends, such dissent confirms Israel’s status as an open and vibrant constitutional republic, unlike so many closed dictatorships in this chronically diseased neighborhood. Meanwhile, Salim Joubran, an Arab, has been on Israel’s 15-member Supreme Court since 2003. Abdel Rahman Zuabi also served there for a fixed term in 1999. Arab judges populate Israel’s district courts. George Kara led a three-judge panel in 2010 that convicted former president Moshe Katsav of rape. “We have had Arab ambassadors and consuls-general for decades,” Israeli foreign-ministry spokesman Yigal Palmor tells me. “We now have two Druze ambassadors, in Norway and the Dominican Republic” — respectively, Professor Naim Araidi (a Druze poet and literature scholar) and Bahij Mansur (a career diplomat). Palmor adds that “Arabs are particularly well integrated in the public-health system, with many Arab doctors holding important positions in Israel’s 24 public general hospitals and in the Ministry of Health.” Arabs excel in Israel’s military, some even as generals. Lieutenant Colonel Magdi Mazarib is an Islamic member of Israel’s 260,000-strong Bedouin Arab minority. He also is the Israel Defense Force’s top-ranking tracker. Many of the IDF’s 1,655 Bedouins use their nomadic skills to detect infiltrators along Israel’s borders, especially in the north. They can inspect rocks and sand and determine where and when a foe has trespassed. “This is our country,” Mazarib told Agence France-Presse last April. He added that he does not fear the Star of David on Israel’s banner, despite being Muslim. “The flag of England also has a cross on it, and the Jews are fine with it,” Mazarib said at a memorial site for the 182 Bedouin soldiers who have died fighting for Israel. What about the back of this shekel? Bahrain’s Jewish population numbers only 38, but three of them serve in parliament. Houda Nonoo, a Jewish woman, announced Thursday that she is finishing her term as that Persian Gulf state’s ambassador to America. Also, Serge Berdugo is Morocco’s Jewish minister of tourism. Still, Jewish officials in the Arab world are rarer than menorahs in Mecca. Though Israel’s Jews and Arabs clash, they also cooperate far more than most journalists admit. In his Ramadan greetings last July, Prime Minister Netanyahu described his country’s Muslim citizens as an “integral part of Israeli society.” He also said he attaches ”great importance” to their “role and contribution to the economy and in all aspects of life in Israel.” As if to illustrate Netanyahu’s warm words, Issawi Frej nods his head just to his left at his Knesset spokesman, a recovering newsman named Moran Richman. “I am Israeli,” Frej says. “Moran, he is Jewish, and he is Israeli. Both of us are Israeli. This country should include both of us, and both of us should take care of this country.”
Read more at: | National Review

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Old January 5th, 2018, 10:19 PM   #26
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JEWS DO HAVE LEGAL RIGHT TO THE HOLY LAND

The Holy Land was Land of Israel, then Palestine, then Israel one more time. Jews never gone from this country, despite of slaughter, persecutions and settling of Muslims and Christians. Crusaders, Mamluks and Turks made efforts to wipe the Jews out of Palestine. In the course of last 1.000 years they persecuted and slaughtered both local "Mustaarab" (Arabized) and Zionist Jews.

The Palestinians are mostly descendants of Arab, Muslim and Christian settlers from 16 to 20-th centuries, settled there by Turks and Egypt with the purpose to replace the Jews. Ashkenazi and Spanish Jewish settlers joined LOCAL «Mustaarab» Jews starting from 15 century CE,*simultaneously or*before Turks settled Palestine by their Muslim, Christian and Druze subjects.*

Local ("Arabized") Jews joined urban communities of Sephardic Jews because of the Turks and Palestinians forced Jewish peasants to give up their land to Muslim neighbors and to leave their villages under the threat of murder or famine. Palestinians staged mass pogroms of Jews in 1834, 70 years earlier than Russia (1905) began to smash their Jews. As the result the Jews from Safed and from villages of Galilee fled to Haifa and Jerusalem, where security was provided by the consuls of the European powers. From Gaza, where Jews lived from ancient times, they (we) were driven out twenty years earlier. The "Khaluka", that is, the help of the Jews of diaspora, saved Jewish "internal" refugees from the starvation.

By the way, all the foregoing means that the Jews were permanent residents of Palestine long before Theodore Herzl declared his Jewish state in Uganda. In the course of last 1.000 years Jews remained in the country as a persecuted minority. Then, in the course of 19-20 century, Ashkenazi Jews bought a part of this land paying high price.

Israel is our land, it remained our land in the course of all 2.000 years after Nakba by Roman Empire. Zionism lasts at least 1.000 years, long before modern Zionism even rose, and despite of robbery and murder of the Jews by Palestinians, local lords and conquerors of all sorts. The Jews were Palestine inhabitants long BEFORE modern Zionism started. Our right to Palestine land is natural right of LOCAL people.

Thus, the Jews do have legal right to (at least part of) the Holy Land, for 3 reasons:
1.First, the Jews were and always remained part of local population, a sort of Middle East "Indians". That is, the Jews have the right to Palestine on the same legal basis, that Palestinians do, the natural right of LOCAL inhabitants.
2.Secondly, the (European) Jews have purchased a part of territory, paying in exchange full price, which exceeded European prices for 1:10.
3.In the course of 1948-49 war, Palestinians fled some parts of All Palestine land. In their place settled Jewish refugees from Arab lands and Europe. These refugees were deprived from a huge property in both Europe and Arab lands.
Now, Europe and Arab League have to compensate this lost Jewish property. Unless they don't compensate Jews, they are due to compensate Palestinians for their lost lands. For example, to help Palestinians get settled at their present places, first of all in All Palestine (that is in Jordan, West Bank and Gaza). And to give Palestinians full human rights and citizenship in all other Arab states, which are responsible for both Palestinian and Jewish refuge problem.

Actually, Jews purchased and captured by force some 17% of All Palestine territory. Arabs, not Jews have offended Palestinians and stole their land. The land that the Jews possess belongs to them legally. The war between Jews and Palestinians is for islamist benefit, it harms both the Jews and Palestinians.
Rames 2 first won The Levant in the Battle of Kadesh circa 1260 BC. If anyone owns The Levant then go to the earliest and Egypt owns Israel.

edit: Ramses II

Last edited by Twisted Sister; January 5th, 2018 at 10:27 PM.
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Old January 6th, 2018, 12:01 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by houseknight View Post
JEWS DO HAVE LEGAL RIGHT TO THE HOLY LAND

The Holy Land was Land of Israel, then Palestine, then Israel one more time. Jews never gone from this country, despite of slaughter, persecutions and settling of Muslims and Christians. Crusaders, Mamluks and Turks made efforts to wipe the Jews out of Palestine. In the course of last 1.000 years they persecuted and slaughtered both local "Mustaarab" (Arabized) and Zionist Jews.

The Palestinians are mostly descendants of Arab, Muslim and Christian settlers from 16 to 20-th centuries, settled there by Turks and Egypt with the purpose to replace the Jews. Ashkenazi and Spanish Jewish settlers joined LOCAL «Mustaarab» Jews starting from 15 century CE,*simultaneously or*before Turks settled Palestine by their Muslim, Christian and Druze subjects.*

Local ("Arabized") Jews joined urban communities of Sephardic Jews because of the Turks and Palestinians forced Jewish peasants to give up their land to Muslim neighbors and to leave their villages under the threat of murder or famine. Palestinians staged mass pogroms of Jews in 1834, 70 years earlier than Russia (1905) began to smash their Jews. As the result the Jews from Safed and from villages of Galilee fled to Haifa and Jerusalem, where security was provided by the consuls of the European powers. From Gaza, where Jews lived from ancient times, they (we) were driven out twenty years earlier. The "Khaluka", that is, the help of the Jews of diaspora, saved Jewish "internal" refugees from the starvation.

By the way, all the foregoing means that the Jews were permanent residents of Palestine long before Theodore Herzl declared his Jewish state in Uganda. In the course of last 1.000 years Jews remained in the country as a persecuted minority. Then, in the course of 19-20 century, Ashkenazi Jews bought a part of this land paying high price.

Israel is our land, it remained our land in the course of all 2.000 years after Nakba by Roman Empire. Zionism lasts at least 1.000 years, long before modern Zionism even rose, and despite of robbery and murder of the Jews by Palestinians, local lords and conquerors of all sorts. The Jews were Palestine inhabitants long BEFORE modern Zionism started. Our right to Palestine land is natural right of LOCAL people.

Thus, the Jews do have legal right to (at least part of) the Holy Land, for 3 reasons:
1.First, the Jews were and always remained part of local population, a sort of Middle East "Indians". That is, the Jews have the right to Palestine on the same legal basis, that Palestinians do, the natural right of LOCAL inhabitants.
2.Secondly, the (European) Jews have purchased a part of territory, paying in exchange full price, which exceeded European prices for 1:10.
3.In the course of 1948-49 war, Palestinians fled some parts of All Palestine land. In their place settled Jewish refugees from Arab lands and Europe. These refugees were deprived from a huge property in both Europe and Arab lands.
Now, Europe and Arab League have to compensate this lost Jewish property. Unless they don't compensate Jews, they are due to compensate Palestinians for their lost lands. For example, to help Palestinians get settled at their present places, first of all in All Palestine (that is in Jordan, West Bank and Gaza). And to give Palestinians full human rights and citizenship in all other Arab states, which are responsible for both Palestinian and Jewish refuge problem.

Actually, Jews purchased and captured by force some 17% of All Palestine territory. Arabs, not Jews have offended Palestinians and stole their land. The land that the Jews possess belongs to them legally. The war between Jews and Palestinians is for islamist benefit, it harms both the Jews and Palestinians.
What Jews DON'T have a right to is saying that they have a right to force existing residents off their land and out of their homes using the flimsiest(BIBLE) excuses that their ancestors...whom they have no actual record of, lived there 2000 years ago, and they've come to take it from the people who are living there now! No matter how you slice it or how much bullshit you shovel on top, Israel is as much a colonial settler state as South Africa was a few decades back! If the Afrikanders had thought of creating AIPAC and had more friends than just Ronald Reagan and Margaret Thatcher, we would still be talking about apartheid today!
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Old January 6th, 2018, 12:03 AM   #28
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There are Palestinians in the Israeli Knesset.

What you need to ask how many Jews are in the Palestinian Authority
Israel owns the Palestinian Authority! Wake up and smell the coffee.
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Old January 6th, 2018, 04:22 AM   #29
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Arthur Koestler wants a word with you. Since when did Jews become "Nazi madmen?"
Where'd you get that then - some KKK boghouse? My whole point, repeated again and again and again, is that the original Zionists detested traditional Judaism, and the current Zionists are essentially intellectual descendants of right-wing European nationalists, or even nazis, desperate to establish their own racist Volk.
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Old January 6th, 2018, 04:24 AM   #30
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That is a false statement. Britain for instance. Iceland.
Get something modern to read. Very little population shift in either, at any time, though some scots did move back to Ulster in the Seventeenth Century.
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