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Old January 6th, 2018, 09:35 AM   #31
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Where'd you get that then - some KKK boghouse? My whole point, repeated again and again and again, is that the original Zionists detested traditional Judaism, and the current Zionists are essentially intellectual descendants of right-wing European nationalists, or even nazis, desperate to establish their own racist Volk.
The only thing different about Netanyahu and the so called left and right parties in the Knesset have with Meir Kehane...the radical rightwing rabbi (who was eventually shot) back in the 70's, is that he wanted all non-Jews immediately expelled from the West Bank; whereas his successors have been expelling Palestinians in incremental amounts since then.

By doing this they have made talk of a "two state settlement" a complete joke, as a West Bank Palestinian state carved up by Israeli settler colonies, walls and private Israeli roads, would make that "state" as meaningless as the bantustans set up by the apartheid South African Government!
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Old January 6th, 2018, 09:35 AM   #32
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Rames 2 first won The Levant in the Battle of Kadesh circa 1260 BC. If anyone owns The Levant then go to the earliest and Egypt owns Israel.

edit: Ramses II
My point is, that the Jews remained in the Holy Land despite of all slaughters and expulsions. Being minority, persecuted by Muslims, Jews have preserved their rights to (at least part of) the Holy Land in the course of 2.000 years of dispersion: 1000, 500, 200 and 100 years ago. Ramzes or Iosephus Flavius were absent here, but the Jews stayed without any break, despite of everyday land grab, robbery and murder. We do have right to this land.

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Old January 6th, 2018, 11:33 AM   #33
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The only thing different about Netanyahu and the so called left and right parties in the Knesset have with Meir Kehane...the radical rightwing rabbi (who was eventually shot) back in the 70's, is that he wanted all non-Jews immediately expelled from the West Bank; whereas his successors have been expelling Palestinians in incremental amounts since then.

By doing this they have made talk of a "two state settlement" a complete joke, as a West Bank Palestinian state carved up by Israeli settler colonies, walls and private Israeli roads, would make that "state" as meaningless as the bantustans set up by the apartheid South African Government!
I may agree, that the West Bank and especially Gaza are Bantustan-like states. But who initiated this state of affairs? Those were just Palestinians. They undermined Oslo agreements on their own will, being incited by their own islamists, Iran and western "lefties". Just Palestinians have destroyed common industrial and infrastructure projects, forced construction of "Apartheid Wall", that is Defensive Fence, re-occupation of Palestine by Israel (2002), Gaza blockade after HAMAS' putsch and rocket barrages to Israel. Just Palestinian terror forced paving bypass roads to Jewish towns and villages.

In another hand, I'm witnessing excellent "private roads" and interchanges to any big or small Arab village in Israel. Any street in my Jewish town bears name in Hebrew, Arab and English language. Arabs learning for driver's licence, prefer Jewish towns, because of clear signs and drivers, obeying laws.

Anf finally, Me personally witnessed, that my Jewish relatives in South Africa live in "Whitestan neighborhoods", fenced by 15-meter "Apartheid Walls". I strongly recommend all SA visitors not to walk on foot, only by car. Political changes in SA haven't destroyed apartheid, only changed facade.

Last edited by houseknight; January 6th, 2018 at 11:39 AM.
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Old January 6th, 2018, 11:51 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by Twisted Sister View Post
Rames 2 first won The Levant in the Battle of Kadesh circa 1260 BC. If anyone owns The Levant then go to the earliest and Egypt owns Israel.

edit: Ramses II
It is Ramesses II and he did not win anything. He was lucky not to have been killed, unable to breach the walls of Kadesh, and retreated back to Egypt to write fake history. Kadesh is in Syria, not Israel. The Hittites kept Canaan and penetrated into Egypt and forced Ramesses II to accept the world's first documented peace treaty.

Last edited by Marcus Livius; January 6th, 2018 at 11:57 AM.
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Old January 6th, 2018, 12:43 PM   #35
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My point is, that the Jews remained in the Holy Land despite of all slaughters and expulsions. Being minority, persecuted by Muslims, Jews have preserved their rights to (at least part of) the Holy Land in the course of 2.000 years of dispersion: 1000, 500, 200 and 100 years ago. Ramzes or Iosephus Flavius were absent here, but the Jews stayed without any break, despite of everyday land grab, robbery and murder. We do have right to this land.
Are you making a biblical case for the land?
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Old January 6th, 2018, 01:11 PM   #36
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Are you making a biblical case for the land?
Biblical claims have moral value, or maybe explain Jewish nostalgia, but are outdated from legal point of view. Legally, Jews do have rights as permanent inhabitants of this country, who in addition have purchased significant part of land. Current Israel inhabitants living there permanently, especially those born in Israel, do have legal rights to this land.
Finally, Muslims claim their rights on the legal basis of their 7-th century conquest (see HAMAS' Charter). If so, why does Jewish conquest from 1948 is less legal? The International law considers legitimate just the last of mutually coordinated border lines. Last agreement coordinating Israel-Palestine border line was signed in 1998 (Wye Plantation agreement).

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Old January 6th, 2018, 05:41 PM   #37
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Biblical claims have moral value, or maybe explain Jewish nostalgia, but are outdated from legal point of view. Legally, Jews do have rights as permanent inhabitants of this country, who in addition have purchased significant part of land. Current Israel inhabitants living there permanently, especially those born in Israel, do have legal rights to this land.
Finally, Muslims claim their rights on the legal basis of their 7-th century conquest (see HAMAS' Charter). So, why does Jewish conquest from 1948 is less legal? The International law considers legitimate just the last of mutually coordinated border lines. Last agreement coordinating Israel-Palestine border line was signed in 1998 (Wye Plantation agreement).
Okay, maybe I've been asking the wrong questions. So, if I look at International law I can establish the claim whereby Jews are making their case?
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Old January 7th, 2018, 04:29 AM   #38
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Biblical claims have moral value, or maybe explain Jewish nostalgia, but are outdated from legal point of view. Legally, Jews do have rights as permanent inhabitants of this country, who in addition have purchased significant part of land. Current Israel inhabitants living there permanently, especially those born in Israel, do have legal rights to this land.
Finally, Muslims claim their rights on the legal basis of their 7-th century conquest (see HAMAS' Charter). If so, why does Jewish conquest from 1948 is less legal? The International law considers legitimate just the last of mutually coordinated border lines. Last agreement coordinating Israel-Palestine border line was signed in 1998 (Wye Plantation agreement).
Where is this conquest-claim by 'Muslims'? The Palestinians were already firmly in possession, as you know, and always have been.
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Old January 7th, 2018, 06:13 AM   #39
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Where is this conquest-claim by 'Muslims'? The Palestinians were already firmly in possession, as you know, and always have been.
Previous variety of HAMAS' Charter is based on Hadith, which recalls Caliph's letter to Muslim conquerors from 7-th century. According to this letter, all lands of Syria and Iraq turn Muslim property. However, Christian and Jewish inhabitants were allowed to continue cultivating their lands under condition of paying taxes to Muslims. Actually, by depriving Palestine Jews of their lands, Palestinian Muslims have violated in the course of many centuries this last commandment.

The freshest version of HAMAS' Charter (2017) avoids to mention a reason, why does "Zionist Entity" should be annihilated, and doesn't establish legal right of the Palestinians to the Holy Land. Simply, the Palestinians do have rights, while the Jews don't.
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Old January 7th, 2018, 11:49 AM   #40
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