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Old February 2nd, 2018, 01:11 AM   #71
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Historic tie of the Jewish people with Palestine was never interrupted, even after "disappearance" of the Jews from Palestine at the hands of Romans, of Crusaders and of Muslims, that is Palestinians. Jews never recognized "stealing" of their land by various conquerors. Likewise all people of conscience from various background, from Christian through Marxists to Muslims. By the way, Martin Luther King was Zionist.
Jews agreed to divide the Land but Palestinians didn't. The Palestinians do have already 3 states, that is Jordan, West Bank and Gaza. Recognition or non-recognition doesn't matter, factually these states exist.
The reason of the war, including Palestinian (exaggerated) sufferings, is Palestinian ambition to annihilate Jews. "Holocaust is good because of it prevented Jews from returning Home" - such is the BDS essence.
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Old February 2nd, 2018, 05:03 AM   #72
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Originally Posted by houseknight View Post
Historic tie of the Jewish people with Palestine was never interrupted, even after "disappearance" of the Jews from Palestine at the hands of Romans, of Crusaders and of Muslims, that is Palestinians. Jews never recognized "stealing" of their land by various conquerors. Likewise all people of conscience from various background, from Christian through Marxists to Muslims. By the way, Martin Luther King was Zionist.
Jews agreed to divide the Land but Palestinians didn't. The Palestinians do have already 3 states, that is Jordan, West Bank and Gaza. Recognition or non-recognition doesn't matter, factually these states exist.
The reason of the war, including Palestinian (exaggerated) sufferings, is Palestinian ambition to annihilate Jews. "Holocaust is good because of it prevented Jews from returning Home" - such is the BDS essence.
As you know, wandering gangs of bossmen ensured that almost every country on earth, while hardly changing the genetic basis of its population, was now proclaimed to be totally ethnically cleansed. Outside the Americas and Australia this is bullshit, however much some 'earlier' gang of bossmen may claim to rule it by distant hereditary right.
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Old February 3rd, 2018, 10:04 AM   #73
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As you know, wandering gangs of bossmen ensured that almost every country on earth, while hardly changing the genetic basis of its population, was now proclaimed to be totally ethnically cleansed. Outside the Americas and Australia this is bullshit, however much some 'earlier' gang of bossmen may claim to rule it by distant hereditary right.
As Me already mentioned, Jewish right to the Holy Land is uninterrupted, not "distant". Jews always remained part of local population, even if minority. In addition, Jewish immigration from abroad lasts at least 1.000 years. The Zionists settled here yet before the ancestors of the Palestinians conquered Palestine. Ashkenazis started immigration to Palestine in 16 century, while last influx of Arab immigrants to Palestine started in 18 century and stopped in 1948.
Iolo, Your slogans contradict history.
How do You describe Yourself "Left", if all Your claims against the Jews are based on Racism? "Chazars", "European Ashkenazis", "Spanyards" - all these are descriptions of race. To the contrary, Your Palestinians are "noble Semites". By the way, Palestinians themselves deny their Jewish roots.
After all, I don't deny Palestinians' rights. My claim is, that Jews do have right to sit peacefully in Palestine and to have independent state, too.
Practically, the partition of Palestine is already performed. The conditions of acceptable compromise were discussed and well known. The dispute over small differences is quite resolvable, only Palestinian stubborn ambition to wipe Jews out stops any compromise.
BDS is not about compromise, since about genocide of the Jews. European sanctions are not about compromise, these are about annihilation of Israel. Antisemites don't speak legal, fair solution, they speak punishment of Israel.

Last edited by houseknight; February 3rd, 2018 at 10:19 AM.
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Old February 4th, 2018, 05:07 AM   #74
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As Me already mentioned, Jewish right to the Holy Land is uninterrupted, not "distant". Jews always remained part of local population, even if minority. In addition, Jewish immigration from abroad lasts at least 1.000 years. The Zionists settled here yet before the ancestors of the Palestinians conquered Palestine. Ashkenazis started immigration to Palestine in 16 century, while last influx of Arab immigrants to Palestine started in 18 century and stopped in 1948.
Iolo, Your slogans contradict history.
How do You describe Yourself "Left", if all Your claims against the Jews are based on Racism? "Chazars", "European Ashkenazis", "Spanyards" - all these are descriptions of race. To the contrary, Your Palestinians are "noble Semites". By the way, Palestinians themselves deny their Jewish roots.
After all, I don't deny Palestinians' rights. My claim is, that Jews do have right to sit peacefully in Palestine and to have independent state, too.
Practically, the partition of Palestine is already performed. The conditions of acceptable compromise were discussed and well known. The dispute over small differences is quite resolvable, only Palestinian stubborn ambition to wipe Jews out stops any compromise.
BDS is not about compromise, since about genocide of the Jews. European sanctions are not about compromise, these are about annihilation of Israel. Antisemites don't speak legal, fair solution, they speak punishment of Israel.
Jews have a history of continuous residence here too. sometimes whole hundreds of them. When will the Zionist claim be put in?
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Old February 4th, 2018, 11:35 AM   #75
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Jews have a history of continuous residence here too. sometimes whole hundreds of them. When will the Zionist claim be put in?
As Me already mentioned, we know, that Zionist immigration existed already in the time of Crusades, and continues up to this day. Massacres of the Jews have
performed some wild Crusaders, Mamluks, then Chorezmians, Turks and "locals" like Bedouin, Druzes from Lebanon, "fallahs", that is Palestinian Muslims. Salah ad Din haven't persecuted Jews, even gave Jews permission to re-settle in Jerusalem. First Ottoman sultans, especially Suleiman the Magnificent, were positive with the Jews, likewise some Acre rulers.
The Jews, both of local origin and Zionist immigrants, used any positive or neutral attitude with the purpose to restore communities. Jerusalem, Tzfat, Hebron, Gaza, Acre, Tiberius, Yaffa, some Galilee villages (Pkiin, Ein Zeitun, Kabul, Alma, Gush Halav-Jish) witnessed multiple restorations of the Jewish communities.
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Old February 5th, 2018, 05:23 AM   #76
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Originally Posted by houseknight View Post
As Me already mentioned, we know, that Zionist immigration existed already in the time of Crusades, and continues up to this day. Massacres of the Jews have
performed some wild Crusaders, Mamluks, then Chorezmians, Turks and "locals" like Bedouin, Druzes from Lebanon, "fallahs", that is Palestinian Muslims. Salah ad Din haven't persecuted Jews, even gave Jews permission to re-settle in Jerusalem. First Ottoman sultans, especially Suleiman the Magnificent, were positive with the Jews, likewise some Acre rulers.
The Jews, both of local origin and Zionist immigrants, used any positive or neutral attitude with the purpose to restore communities. Jerusalem, Tzfat, Hebron, Gaza, Acre, Tiberius, Yaffa, some Galilee villages (Pkiin, Ein Zeitun, Kabul, Alma, Gush Halav-Jish) witnessed multiple restorations of the Jewish communities.
The vast majority of the population has always, until the racist invasion, consisted of the native people, and they are the only people with any right to the Land, as you know.
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Old February 5th, 2018, 06:51 PM   #77
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The vast majority of the population has always, until the racist invasion, consisted of the native people, and they are the only people with any right to the Land, as you know.
The "native population" of Muslim and Christian origin settled Palestine mostly after Crusades, that is simultaneously with the Zionist immigrants. The local Jews who survived massacres and famine, joined Zionist Jews of Spanish origin. So, the Jews of Old Yishuv were at least as native, as the Muslims and Christians were. That is, the Jews do have right to at least part of Palestine. The partition of Palestine was legal and just. The question is how to divide it.

Last edited by houseknight; February 5th, 2018 at 06:56 PM.
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