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Old June 10th, 2018, 04:18 PM   #91
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Zionism isn't the problem. The problem is when Israel was restored, thereby fulfillment of prophecy. You're fighting God, and you're gonna lose. The Word of God is the final say.
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Old June 10th, 2018, 04:57 PM   #92
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We have a different opinion of who is the radical murdering scum. Until Zionism, the Jews and Palestinians lived in peace. At the very least, Israelis should be made to follow the United Nation mandates and land should be returned to Palestinians, and then peacekeepers should be in place to protect both the Jews and everyone else.

Ideally, Jerusalem would be an international territory where all citizens had the same rights and legal protection as they have in the US.
A two-state solution isn't even possible at this point. With the continuing expansion of settlements, a Palestinian state wouldn't even be sustainable. It would be on two extremely poor plots of land.

The only hope, really, is a one-state solution. No Israel or Palestine, just one country with equal rights for all. I don't know how realistic this is, but it's the only way forward. The Jews and Palestinians will have to learn to live with each other in peace and harmony. Give Palestinians the right of return, and grant both Jews and Palestinians political autonomy. The country remains the home of the Jews, and the Palestinians get to come back. Problem solved.
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Old June 10th, 2018, 06:40 PM   #93
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Actually, the partition plan contained within UN General Assembly Resolution 181 was not implemented in any sense to have "created Israel." In fact, the region quickly descended into a state of civil war in late 1947 immediately after that Resolution was voted on. And by the time when the British formally withdrew from the Mandate in 1948, the Jews successfully filled that resulting power void, took military control over a significant portion of the Mandate, and declared that region to be the new state of Israel. Thus, the UN did not "create Israel"...as you appear to be suggesting.

Actually, the UN agreed to not use UN security forces to enforce the recommendation of the creation of Israel. Instead they left it up to the inhabitants, thus the Jewish people then took it upon themselves to do so. So you can say the UN did not create Israel, but they did recommend it then they chose to not use any UN force to deal with it. Jews 1 Arabs 0. Furthermore the UN officially recognized the State of Israel on May 14, 1948. It is a bit facetious to attempt to wash the UN hands of the creation of Israel, when you actually understand and comprehend everything that happened.

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Old June 11th, 2018, 04:05 AM   #94
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Actually, the UN agreed to not use UN security forces to enforce the recommendation of the creation of Israel. Instead they left it up to the inhabitants, thus the Jewish people then took it upon themselves to do so. So you can say the UN did not create Israel, but they did recommend it then they chose to not use any UN force to deal with it. Jews 1 Arabs 0. Furthermore the UN officially recognized the State of Israel on May 14, 1948. It is a bit facetious to attempt to wash the UN hands of the creation of Israel, when you actually understand and comprehend everything that happened.

A vote by those who didn't want a lot of DPs and of bribed minor states like Haiti gave Palestine (totally illegally - would you let 'em give your place to, say, the Russians?) to the Nazis because they were nostalgic about Hitler's racist murderers. They needed someone to feel superior to, I expect.
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Old June 11th, 2018, 08:45 AM   #95
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A two-state solution isn't even possible at this point. With the continuing expansion of settlements, a Palestinian state wouldn't even be sustainable. It would be on two extremely poor plots of land.

The only hope, really, is a one-state solution. No Israel or Palestine, just one country with equal rights for all. I don't know how realistic this is, but it's the only way forward. The Jews and Palestinians will have to learn to live with each other in peace and harmony. Give Palestinians the right of return, and grant both Jews and Palestinians political autonomy. The country remains the home of the Jews, and the Palestinians get to come back. Problem solved.
And the US should support anything different why? It boils my blood to think of all the US tax dollars and the military support given to Israel when it is not a democracy such as our own. Why in blazes does anyone accept the argument for this, that Israel is a democracy? If it were a democracy with equal rights for everyone, there would be no problem.
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Old June 11th, 2018, 09:17 AM   #96
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Here is an interesting look at the members of the UN when Israel declared its existence, the different ways different nations handled this. The Isreal decision is not a united international decision, but independently nations decided if they will recognize Israel or not, and their decisions can change. Israel's wars have led to some countries turning against Isreal.

I want to point out Jews are spread around the world and this is a huge economic and political advantage that Arabs do not have. Also, the relationship between Israel and Christianity is a huge benefit to Israel, with many Christians believing the establishment of Israel is God's will. Arab and Muslim dominated countries do not have the same reason for supporting Israel. And personally, I think the US should stay out of the affairs of a nation that exists for religious reasons. We can not make a strong stand against Shia law and Muslim control of people if we do not make an equal stand against Jewish control of Israel. To be in favor of one religion dominating and controlling a nation and not the other is hypocritical.

Another way the relationship with Israel is managed is through accepting people with Israel passports or not. Independent countries can ban people from Israel from entering their countries.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intern...tion_of_Israel

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Old June 11th, 2018, 11:26 AM   #97
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A two-state solution isn't even possible at this point. With the continuing expansion of settlements, a Palestinian state wouldn't even be sustainable. It would be on two extremely poor plots of land.

The only hope, really, is a one-state solution. No Israel or Palestine, just one country with equal rights for all. I don't know how realistic this is, but it's the only way forward. The Jews and Palestinians will have to learn to live with each other in peace and harmony. Give Palestinians the right of return, and grant both Jews and Palestinians political autonomy. The country remains the home of the Jews, and the Palestinians get to come back. Problem solved.
Yes, they've been doing this "two state solution" dance since the 70's, all the while gobbling up more and more territory to fill with foreigners....YES FOREIGNERS! Nobody else should have recognized this BS that Jews from all over the world be given 'rights of return' while those living on the land are harassed and forced off of the same lands their families have lived on for countless generations!

I recall that when Begin first took power as leader of the Likud Party, he changed the emphasis on settlement process from the Labour Party policy....which was to settle the sparsely populated/but resource rich Sinai Peninsula. Obviously, the Egyptians weren't happy about the Jewish settlements being built in the Eastern Sinai, but that was viewed as easier and more efficient than a long, expensive, bloody and immoral process of forcing populations off their land into exile and repopulating them with Jews.

So, history shows that Begin won...waving around the flimsy religious justifications of 'returning to the holy land' while the pragmatic Labourites lost what would have been equally unlawful but would not have necessitated turning Israel into a clearly fascist state today!
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Old June 11th, 2018, 01:21 PM   #98
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And the US should support anything different why? It boils my blood to think of all the US tax dollars and the military support given to Israel when it is not a democracy such as our own. Why in blazes does anyone accept the argument for this, that Israel is a democracy? If it were a democracy with equal rights for everyone, there would be no problem.
Israel is a contradiction. How can you be both Jewish and Democratic at the same time?
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Old June 11th, 2018, 02:20 PM   #99
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And the US should support anything different why? It boils my blood to think of all the US tax dollars and the military support given to Israel when it is not a democracy such as our own. Why in blazes does anyone accept the argument for this, that Israel is a democracy? If it were a democracy with equal rights for everyone, there would be no problem.
Less than 1% of the US budget goes to foreign aid. Food for thought.

Democracy for everyone? What does that even mean? Are you saying that Israel should be forced to allow people who are not citizens of Israel the right to affect change on that nation? Do the citizens of Israel not get an opportunity to vote? Your statement is absurd
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Old June 12th, 2018, 11:48 AM   #100
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A two-state solution isn't even possible at this point. With the continuing expansion of settlements, a Palestinian state wouldn't even be sustainable. It would be on two extremely poor plots of land.

The only hope, really, is a one-state solution. No Israel or Palestine, just one country with equal rights for all. I don't know how realistic this is, but it's the only way forward. The Jews and Palestinians will have to learn to live with each other in peace and harmony. Give Palestinians the right of return, and grant both Jews and Palestinians political autonomy. The country remains the home of the Jews, and the Palestinians get to come back. Problem solved.
Starting from Peel commission partition plan (1937), the 2-state solution means Greater Palestine, which includes Jordan, West Bank and Gaza, and Israel, which covers some 17% of Greater Palestine territory. With Hamas of Jordan, approaching dominant position in Jordan, such solution may turn more than real, without any peace agreement. Generally, Islamic tradition neglects agreements with non-Muslims, so any solution must be "fait accompli".
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