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Old July 11th, 2018, 03:54 PM   #171
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Originally Posted by Ploughboy View Post
That's complete BS! I busted you in many lies so don't try and turn this around on me. All you have is your vague words which have been weightless in all our discussions. Why don't you try debating with facts sometime.

I don't mind debating facts. Debating "alternative facts", which liars like you believe in, is another story.

Shall I recall the lies you've uttered just since I noticed your posts? You lied that I "hated Jews", you lied that "liberals hate Jews", you lied that the Nazis were "left wing", you lied that the liberals were on the SIDE of the Nazis philosophically, and many, many more. Interesting that, since REAL Christians think lying is one of the "Deadly Sins"..you sure don't seem to mind lying though. Nor does your evangelical phony ilk.

You are a liar and a fake Christian. You've failed to address my demand to explain Numbers 5:11-28, which CLEARLY SHOWS THE BIBLE TELLING HOW TO ABORT BABIES AND WHY. You are all hot, vacuus, dumb air. And phony as the day is long.
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Old July 11th, 2018, 05:31 PM   #172
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Originally Posted by GluteusMaximus View Post
I don't mind debating facts. Debating "alternative facts", which liars like you believe in, is another story.
Not alternative facts. I don't deal with that stuff and have no interest in alternative anything. I'll put it to ya this way, anyone who hated alternative music would not ever think about alternative facts.

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Originally Posted by GluteusMaximus View Post
Shall I recall the lies you've uttered just since I noticed your posts? You lied that I "hated Jews",

When you post the things that you do don't be surprised if people call you a Jew hater. It was your posts that led me to believe you hated Jews. Maybe you need to better clarify your position before jumping into a discussion saying things like,

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Originally Posted by GluteusMaximus View Post
I couldn't give less of a shit about Israel.
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Originally Posted by GluteusMaximus View Post
Israel is not now, and NEVER HAS been a friend of the USA.
This is a lie by the way and one that is pushed by Democrats into fake news (alternative facts; conspiracy theory). Israel is our best ally in the region, even in the world. They are pro-America. That is a fact. So I did not lie. You were the one who said you couldn't give less of a shit about Israel<---that does not sound like someone who cares about Jews. Then you say things like,

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Originally Posted by GluteusMaximus View Post
If Israel went the way of the dodo a lot of the USA's problems in the Middle East would evaporate like a fart in the wind.
So this leads me to think you could care less, as you already said you didn't care, if the Jews were exterminated. If you do not mean these things then why do you take the time to type this in and have these words attributed to your name?

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Originally Posted by GluteusMaximus View Post
you lied that "liberals hate Jews"
If liberals don't hate Jews, then why are so many of them now against Israel and taking sides with Hamas? And who, may I ask, is the political group of people who are sympathetic to Islam? That certainly would not be conservatives because being conservative means being pro-America and being pro-America beings being anti-Islam. So that narrows it down to the liberals who have allowed themselves to become sympathetic to terrorism and become influenced by their propaganda against the Jews which has increased in the anti-Israel rhetoric in the country. This is not coming from conservatives. Maybe a small few of them which have been disassociated from conservative ranks, like the KKK who we know was started by the Democrat Party and that too is a fact. Democrats caused this hatred for Israel under muslim Obama. From there he empowered muslim throughout the country who grabbed power in education and now pump their anti-Israel narrative in the minds of students across the nation. Even the Jews in Israel know the Democrat Party is anti-Israel so who are you kidding?


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Originally Posted by GluteusMaximus View Post
you lied that the Nazis were "left wing",
You know very little about the rise of the Third Reich. So tell me how you define a group of devil worshipers who infiltrate German churches and start teaching heresy? Are these people conservative scholars? Are their teachings traced back down to the 1st century? No. The Nazi scholars were complete heretics! They tried to change theology which is very liberal. From there they infiltrated conservative branches of the government and they changed that government which is very radically liberal. So Naziism made a change in Germany that was not originally part of German heritage. This change may have been disguised as patriotism, but when the movement breaks away from a nation's heritage, it is a change which means Naziism is not a conservative movement.


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Originally Posted by GluteusMaximus View Post
you lied that the liberals were on the SIDE of the Nazis philosophically,
What do you think its called when liberals side with the same people who murdered Jews in WWII? Are you gonna sit here and deny the historical fact that the grand Mufti of Palestine and his people did not serve in Hitler's SS? If you deny that well established historical fact then it is you who are coming up with alternative facts. Where is all this antisemitism coming from? Do you really think we conservatives are spreading hate against Israel? Why is it that so many Jews stayed up late during election night 2016 to find out who won the U.S. Election? Why is it that the entire country of Israel celebrated Trump's victory over Hillary? Could it be that these Holocaust victims saw how the Democrats were trying to start up a neo-Nazi agenda against them? You better believe the Jews knew the entire progressive establishment worldwide was against them! You're gonna try and tell me that Democrats are pro-Israel when Obama did all he could to oppress them and side with his Nazi allies, the Palestinians. The U.N. is progressive run and they vote against Israel all the time in favor of Hamas, the terrorist organization voted into power by the Palestinian people! So I'm not lying because I have seen and witnessed this rise of Jewish hatred and I know exactly where its coming from!

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Originally Posted by GluteusMaximus View Post
and many, many more. Interesting that, since REAL Christians think lying is one of the "Deadly Sins"..you sure don't seem to mind lying though. Nor does your evangelical phony ilk.
You have not found me guilty of one single lie and you never will. There aren't that many people in this world who have a better reputation for being truthful than me. I never lie. I can't lie. I cannot even tell a white lie. I have not told a single lie in 15 years. I don't wanna lie. Its one of my best traits as a human being and everyone who knows me personally knows I never lie. I hate lies which is why I strongly oppose the Democrat Party!

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Originally Posted by GluteusMaximus View Post
You are a liar and a fake Christian. You've failed to address my demand to explain Numbers 5:11-28, which CLEARLY SHOWS THE BIBLE TELLING HOW TO ABORT BABIES AND WHY. You are all hot, vacuus, dumb air. And phony as the day is long.
You are being waaaay to judgmental which is typical of radical liberals to be. You do not even know me and have not found me guilty of a lie as I have proven in this post. You want to be a radical and radicals attack the character of the opposition.

The passage you are referring say absolutely nothing about abortion! This doesn't even involve pregnancy!

Numbers 5:11-28 King James Version (KJV)

Quote:
11 And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying,
12 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, If any man's wife go aside, and commit a trespass against him,
13 And a man lie with her carnally, and it be hid from the eyes of her husband, and be kept close, and she be defiled, and there be no witness against her, neither she be taken with the manner;
14 And the spirit of jealousy come upon him, and he be jealous of his wife, and she be defiled: or if the spirit of jealousy come upon him, and he be jealous of his wife, and she be not defiled:
15 Then shall the man bring his wife unto the priest, and he shall bring her offering for her, the tenth part of an ephah of barley meal; he shall pour no oil upon it, nor put frankincense thereon; for it is an offering of jealousy, an offering of memorial, bringing iniquity to remembrance.
16 And the priest shall bring her near, and set her before the Lord:
17 And the priest shall take holy water in an earthen vessel; and of the dust that is in the floor of the tabernacle the priest shall take, and put it into the water:
18 And the priest shall set the woman before the Lord, and uncover the woman's head, and put the offering of memorial in her hands, which is the jealousy offering: and the priest shall have in his hand the bitter water that causeth the curse:
19 And the priest shall charge her by an oath, and say unto the woman, If no man have lain with thee, and if thou hast not gone aside to uncleanness with another instead of thy husband, be thou free from this bitter water that causeth the curse:
20 But if thou hast gone aside to another instead of thy husband, and if thou be defiled, and some man have lain with thee beside thine husband:
21 Then the priest shall charge the woman with an oath of cursing, and the priest shall say unto the woman, The Lord make thee a curse and an oath among thy people, when the Lord doth make thy thigh to rot, and thy belly to swell;
22 And this water that causeth the curse shall go into thy bowels, to make thy belly to swell, and thy thigh to rot: And the woman shall say, Amen, amen.
23 And the priest shall write these curses in a book, and he shall blot them out with the bitter water:
24 And he shall cause the woman to drink the bitter water that causeth the curse: and the water that causeth the curse shall enter into her, and become bitter.
25 Then the priest shall take the jealousy offering out of the woman's hand, and shall wave the offering before the Lord, and offer it upon the altar:
26 And the priest shall take an handful of the offering, even the memorial thereof, and burn it upon the altar, and afterward shall cause the woman to drink the water.
27 And when he hath made her to drink the water, then it shall come to pass, that, if she be defiled, and have done trespass against her husband, that the water that causeth the curse shall enter into her, and become bitter, and her belly shall swell, and her thigh shall rot: and the woman shall be a curse among her people.
28 And if the woman be not defiled, but be clean; then she shall be free, and shall conceive seed.
Show me in this passage where it condones abortion? I do not see it.

Here is another translation of the same passage.

Numbers 5:11-28 English Standard Version (ESV)

Quote:
A Test for Adultery
11 And the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, 12 “Speak to the people of Israel, If any man's wife goes astray and breaks faith with him, 13 if a man lies with her sexually, and it is hidden from the eyes of her husband, and she is undetected though she has defiled herself, and there is no witness against her, since she was not taken in the act, 14 and if the spirit of jealousy comes over him and he is jealous of his wife who has defiled herself, or if the spirit of jealousy comes over him and he is jealous of his wife, though she has not defiled herself, 15 then the man shall bring his wife to the priest and bring the offering required of her, a tenth of an ephah of barley flour. He shall pour no oil on it and put no frankincense on it, for it is a grain offering of jealousy, a grain offering of remembrance, bringing iniquity to remembrance.

16 “And the priest shall bring her near and set her before the Lord. 17 And the priest shall take holy water in an earthenware vessel and take some of the dust that is on the floor of the tabernacle and put it into the water. 18 And the priest shall set the woman before the Lord and unbind the hair of the woman's head and place in her hands the grain offering of remembrance, which is the grain offering of jealousy. And in his hand the priest shall have the water of bitterness that brings the curse. 19 Then the priest shall make her take an oath, saying, ‘If no man has lain with you, and if you have not turned aside to uncleanness while you were under your husband's authority, be free from this water of bitterness that brings the curse. 20 But if you have gone astray, though you are under your husband's authority, and if you have defiled yourself, and some man other than your husband has lain with you, 21 then’ (let the priest make the woman take the oath of the curse, and say to the woman) ‘the Lord make you a curse and an oath among your people, when the Lord makes your thigh fall away and your body swell. 22 May this water that brings the curse pass into your bowels and make your womb swell and your thigh fall away.’ And the woman shall say, ‘Amen, Amen.’

23 “Then the priest shall write these curses in a book and wash them off into the water of bitterness. 24 And he shall make the woman drink the water of bitterness that brings the curse, and the water that brings the curse shall enter into her and cause bitter pain. 25 And the priest shall take the grain offering of jealousy out of the woman's hand and shall wave the grain offering before the Lord and bring it to the altar. 26 And the priest shall take a handful of the grain offering, as its memorial portion, and burn it on the altar, and afterward shall make the woman drink the water. 27 And when he has made her drink the water, then, if she has defiled herself and has broken faith with her husband, the water that brings the curse shall enter into her and cause bitter pain, and her womb shall swell, and her thigh shall fall away, and the woman shall become a curse among her people. 28 But if the woman has not defiled herself and is clean, then she shall be free and shall conceive children.
This is not about abortion. There is no trace nor hint of abortion taking place here, nor is this women pregnant.

The focus on this passage is verses 21 & 22. The Obamacare Bible (NIV'11) is the only translation that used miscarriage.

Quote:
21 here the priest is to put the woman under this curse—“may the Lord cause you to become a curse among your people when he makes your womb miscarry and your abdomen swell. 22 May this water that brings a curse enter your body so that your abdomen swells or your womb miscarries.” (Obamacare Bible).
Now lets see what the real NIV says, the NIV'84:

"21 here the priest is to put the woman under this curse of the oath--"may the LORD cause your people to curse and denounce you when he causes your thigh to waste away and your abdomen to swell. 22 May the water that brings a curse enter your body so that your abdomen swells and your thigh wastes away."

We've already seen the entire passage from the KJV and ESV. Lets now see how accurately translated the Obamacare Bible is compared to other translations:

The 1537 Matthew's Bible,

Quote:
5:21 (and let the preast coniure her wyth the coniuracion of the curse & say vnto her) the Lord make the a curse and a coniuracion amonge thy people: so that the Lord make thy thygh rotte, and thy bely swel
5:22 in this bitter cursing water goo in to the bowels of the, that thy bely swel and thy thygh rotte, and the wyfe shal say Amen Amen.
Numbers 5:21 Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCS

Quote:
21 at this point the priest must make the woman take the oath with the sworn curse, and he is to say to her—‘May the Lord make you into an object of your people’s cursing and swearing when He makes your thigh shrivel and your belly swell.
Numbers 5:21 1599 Geneva Bible (GNV)

Quote:
21 (Then the Priest shall charge the woman with an oath of cursing, and the Priest shall say unto the woman The Lord make thee to be accursed, and detestable for the oath among the people, and the Lord cause thy thigh to rot, and thy belly to swell:
Numbers 5:21 Modern English Version (MEV)

Quote:
21 then the priest will charge the woman with an oath of cursing, and the priest will say to the woman, “The Lord make you a curse and an oath among your people, when the Lord makes your thigh rot and your belly swell.
Numbers 5:21 New American Standard Bible (NAS

Quote:
21 (then the priest shall have the woman swear with the oath of the curse, and the priest shall say to the woman), “the Lord make you a curse and an oath among your people by the Lord’s making your thigh waste away and your abdomen swell;
Numbers 5:21 New King James Version (NKJV)
Quote:
21 then the priest shall put the woman under the oath of the curse, and he shall say to the woman—“the Lord make you a curse and an oath among your people, when the Lord makes your thigh rot and your belly swell;
Numbers 5:21 New Living Translation (NLT)

Quote:
21 “At this point the priest must put the woman under oath by saying, ‘May the people know that the Lord’s curse is upon you when he makes you infertile, causing your womb to shrivel and your abdomen to swell.
Numbers 5:21 Revised Standard Version (RSV)

Quote:
21 then’ (let the priest make the woman take the oath of the curse, and say to the woman) ‘the Lord make you an execration and an oath among your people, when the Lord makes your thigh fall away and your body swell;
Numbers 5:21 Young's Literal Translation (YLT)

Quote:
21 (then the priest hath caused the woman to swear with an oath of execration, and the priest hath said to the woman) -- Jehovah doth give thee for an execration, and for a curse, in the midst of thy people, in Jehovah's giving thy thigh to fall, and thy belly to swell,
Nothing in all these translations defends the Obamacare Bible. The expression that says thigh to fall away means to become barren in the womb, unable to even get pregnant. The woman seeing the priest is not pregnant nor was abortion legal in Israel. The Obamacare Bible makes up a interpretation and then calls it an abortion. How liberal those translators of the NIV'11 were! Nothing like spiking the Bible with a little far left agenda, right?

The assumption made up by NIV'11 scholars is not found in any of the most trusted translations. Nowhere is abortion mention, not directly or indirectly. At best you have found where this curse will lead to a barren womb.

Now the water used in this ritual is holy water. It is not poison. I have been there when the priest makes the holy water and blesses it. A woman who is unholy will feel as though she has drank poison because she knows she has just drank holy water blessed by the high priest of Israel and sanctioned by their Big Boss -- God (Who is right there the whole time). As someone training in exorcism the holy water has its purpose and once drank by a believer will reveal truth or lie from them as their conscience bears witness to their truthfulness or their lies. It is also used for blessing and healing during exorcism. A person possessed by a demon will see the power of holy water during the exorcism. So the woman in this passage is being exorcised and drinking the holy water will expose her conscience. If she is found to be a jealous liar, she will become cursed and barren.

There is no hint of abortion in this passage. The atheists who have been pushing this lie are wrong. And it is atheistic skepticism. Its being refuted all over the internet.
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Old July 12th, 2018, 10:12 AM   #173
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Originally Posted by Ploughboy View Post
Not alternative facts. I don't deal with that stuff and have no interest in alternative anything. I'll put it to ya this way, anyone who hated alternative music would not ever think about alternative facts.




When you post the things that you do don't be surprised if people call you a Jew hater. It was your posts that led me to believe you hated Jews. Maybe you need to better clarify your position before jumping into a discussion saying things like,





This is a lie by the way and one that is pushed by Democrats into fake news (alternative facts; conspiracy theory). Israel is our best ally in the region, even in the world. They are pro-America. That is a fact. So I did not lie. You were the one who said you couldn't give less of a shit about Israel<---that does not sound like someone who cares about Jews. Then you say things like,



So this leads me to think you could care less, as you already said you didn't care, if the Jews were exterminated. If you do not mean these things then why do you take the time to type this in and have these words attributed to your name?



If liberals don't hate Jews, then why are so many of them now against Israel and taking sides with Hamas? And who, may I ask, is the political group of people who are sympathetic to Islam? That certainly would not be conservatives because being conservative means being pro-America and being pro-America beings being anti-Islam. So that narrows it down to the liberals who have allowed themselves to become sympathetic to terrorism and become influenced by their propaganda against the Jews which has increased in the anti-Israel rhetoric in the country. This is not coming from conservatives. Maybe a small few of them which have been disassociated from conservative ranks, like the KKK who we know was started by the Democrat Party and that too is a fact. Democrats caused this hatred for Israel under muslim Obama. From there he empowered muslim throughout the country who grabbed power in education and now pump their anti-Israel narrative in the minds of students across the nation. Even the Jews in Israel know the Democrat Party is anti-Israel so who are you kidding?




You know very little about the rise of the Third Reich. So tell me how you define a group of devil worshipers who infiltrate German churches and start teaching heresy? Are these people conservative scholars? Are their teachings traced back down to the 1st century? No. The Nazi scholars were complete heretics! They tried to change theology which is very liberal. From there they infiltrated conservative branches of the government and they changed that government which is very radically liberal. So Naziism made a change in Germany that was not originally part of German heritage. This change may have been disguised as patriotism, but when the movement breaks away from a nation's heritage, it is a change which means Naziism is not a conservative movement.




What do you think its called when liberals side with the same people who murdered Jews in WWII? Are you gonna sit here and deny the historical fact that the grand Mufti of Palestine and his people did not serve in Hitler's SS? If you deny that well established historical fact then it is you who are coming up with alternative facts. Where is all this antisemitism coming from? Do you really think we conservatives are spreading hate against Israel? Why is it that so many Jews stayed up late during election night 2016 to find out who won the U.S. Election? Why is it that the entire country of Israel celebrated Trump's victory over Hillary? Could it be that these Holocaust victims saw how the Democrats were trying to start up a neo-Nazi agenda against them? You better believe the Jews knew the entire progressive establishment worldwide was against them! You're gonna try and tell me that Democrats are pro-Israel when Obama did all he could to oppress them and side with his Nazi allies, the Palestinians. The U.N. is progressive run and they vote against Israel all the time in favor of Hamas, the terrorist organization voted into power by the Palestinian people! So I'm not lying because I have seen and witnessed this rise of Jewish hatred and I know exactly where its coming from!



You have not found me guilty of one single lie and you never will. There aren't that many people in this world who have a better reputation for being truthful than me. I never lie. I can't lie. I cannot even tell a white lie. I have not told a single lie in 15 years. I don't wanna lie. Its one of my best traits as a human being and everyone who knows me personally knows I never lie. I hate lies which is why I strongly oppose the Democrat Party!



You are being waaaay to judgmental which is typical of radical liberals to be. You do not even know me and have not found me guilty of a lie as I have proven in this post. You want to be a radical and radicals attack the character of the opposition.

The passage you are referring say absolutely nothing about abortion! This doesn't even involve pregnancy!

Numbers 5:11-28 King James Version (KJV)



Show me in this passage where it condones abortion? I do not see it.

Here is another translation of the same passage.

Numbers 5:11-28 English Standard Version (ESV)



This is not about abortion. There is no trace nor hint of abortion taking place here, nor is this women pregnant.

The focus on this passage is verses 21 & 22. The Obamacare Bible (NIV'11) is the only translation that used miscarriage.



Now lets see what the real NIV says, the NIV'84:

"21 here the priest is to put the woman under this curse of the oath--"may the LORD cause your people to curse and denounce you when he causes your thigh to waste away and your abdomen to swell. 22 May the water that brings a curse enter your body so that your abdomen swells and your thigh wastes away."

We've already seen the entire passage from the KJV and ESV. Lets now see how accurately translated the Obamacare Bible is compared to other translations:

The 1537 Matthew's Bible,



Numbers 5:21 Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCS



Numbers 5:21 1599 Geneva Bible (GNV)



Numbers 5:21 Modern English Version (MEV)



Numbers 5:21 New American Standard Bible (NAS



Numbers 5:21 New King James Version (NKJV)


Numbers 5:21 New Living Translation (NLT)



Numbers 5:21 Revised Standard Version (RSV)



Numbers 5:21 Young's Literal Translation (YLT)



Nothing in all these translations defends the Obamacare Bible. The expression that says thigh to fall away means to become barren in the womb, unable to even get pregnant. The woman seeing the priest is not pregnant nor was abortion legal in Israel. The Obamacare Bible makes up a interpretation and then calls it an abortion. How liberal those translators of the NIV'11 were! Nothing like spiking the Bible with a little far left agenda, right?

The assumption made up by NIV'11 scholars is not found in any of the most trusted translations. Nowhere is abortion mention, not directly or indirectly. At best you have found where this curse will lead to a barren womb.

Now the water used in this ritual is holy water. It is not poison. I have been there when the priest makes the holy water and blesses it. A woman who is unholy will feel as though she has drank poison because she knows she has just drank holy water blessed by the high priest of Israel and sanctioned by their Big Boss -- God (Who is right there the whole time). As someone training in exorcism the holy water has its purpose and once drank by a believer will reveal truth or lie from them as their conscience bears witness to their truthfulness or their lies. It is also used for blessing and healing during exorcism. A person possessed by a demon will see the power of holy water during the exorcism. So the woman in this passage is being exorcised and drinking the holy water will expose her conscience. If she is found to be a jealous liar, she will become cursed and barren.

There is no hint of abortion in this passage. The atheists who have been pushing this lie are wrong. And it is atheistic skepticism. Its being refuted all over the internet.
There are no more facts to bible stuff than there is with any mythology. Even Greek mythology was mixed with facts. But mostly it is all storytelling, and there is no reason to put more importance on Hebrew stories than anyone else's. However, when we are talking of gods and the supernatural there are good reasons for not taking the stories literally.

In Israel, there is a place where hundreds of just born babies are born, and I think this could mean Hebrews were sacrificing their first born child to god as will the firstborn of their animals. The story about god not wanting a father to kill his son was necessary because they were killing their children to please their god. If they were not, there would be no need for that story.

And there is no way to verify the truth of such mythology. We do not directly experience the gods and humans never did, despite what their stories about the gods.
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Old July 12th, 2018, 10:22 AM   #174
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@ploughboy: what do you call a forced miscarriage? AN ABORTION, dipshit! These Bible verses are a DIRECTION ON HOW TO FORCE A MISCARRIAGE. Where is the concern for the poor, poor fetus? Absent, that's where. That's because PER THE BIBLE a fetus IS NOT A PERSON. A person is born of the "breath of God" and dies when the breath leaves his body. It's really that simple.

But go ahead with the lying and the professional level of obtuseness, it's what you do well.



11 And the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, 12 “Speak to the people of Israel, If any man's wife goes astray and breaks faith with him, 13 if a man lies with her sexually, and it is hidden from the eyes of her husband, and she is undetected though she has defiled herself, and there is no witness against her, since she was not taken in the act, 14 and if the spirit of jealousy comes over him and he is jealous of his wife who has defiled herself, or if the spirit of jealousy comes over him and he is jealous of his wife, though she has not defiled herself, 15 then the man shall bring his wife to the priest and bring the offering required of her, a tenth of an ephah of barley flour. He shall pour no oil on it and put no frankincense on it, for it is a grain offering of jealousy, a grain offering of remembrance, bringing iniquity to remembrance.

16 “And the priest shall bring her near and set her before the Lord. 17 And the priest shall take holy water in an earthenware vessel and take some of the dust that is on the floor of the tabernacle and put it into the water. 18 And the priest shall set the woman before the Lord and unbind the hair of the woman's head and place in her hands the grain offering of remembrance, which is the grain offering of jealousy. And in his hand the priest shall have the water of bitterness that brings the curse. 19 Then the priest shall make her take an oath, saying, ‘If no man has lain with you, and if you have not turned aside to uncleanness while you were under your husband's authority, be free from this water of bitterness that brings the curse. 20 But if you have gone astray, though you are under your husband's authority, and if you have defiled yourself, and some man other than your husband has lain with you, 21 then’ (let the priest make the woman take the oath of the curse, and say to the woman) ‘the Lord make you a curse and an oath among your people, when the Lord makes your thigh fall away and your body swell. 22 May this water that brings the curse pass into your bowels and make your womb swell and your thigh fall away.’ And the woman shall say, ‘Amen, Amen.’

23 “Then the priest shall write these curses in a book and wash them off into the water of bitterness. 24 And he shall make the woman drink the water of bitterness that brings the curse, and the water that brings the curse shall enter into her and cause bitter pain. 25 And the priest shall take the grain offering of jealousy out of the woman's hand and shall wave the grain offering before the Lord and bring it to the altar. 26 And the priest shall take a handful of the grain offering, as its memorial portion, and burn it on the altar, and afterward shall make the woman drink the water. 27 And when he has made her drink the water, then, if she has defiled herself and has broken faith with her husband, the water that brings the curse shall enter into her and cause bitter pain, and her womb shall swell, and her thigh shall fall away, and the woman shall become a curse among her people. 28 But if the woman has not defiled herself and is clean, then she shall be free and shall conceive children.
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Old July 12th, 2018, 10:23 AM   #175
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Oh, and for the record: the Bible is about as relevant a moral guide as "Guitar for Dummies".
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Old July 12th, 2018, 08:08 PM   #176
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Originally Posted by GluteusMaximus View Post
@ploughboy: what do you call a forced miscarriage? AN ABORTION, dipshit! These Bible verses are a DIRECTION ON HOW TO FORCE A MISCARRIAGE. Where is the concern for the poor, poor fetus? Absent, that's where. That's because PER THE BIBLE a fetus IS NOT A PERSON. A person is born of the "breath of God" and dies when the breath leaves his body. It's really that simple.

But go ahead with the lying and the professional level of obtuseness, it's what you do well.



11 And the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, 12 “Speak to the people of Israel, If any man's wife goes astray and breaks faith with him, 13 if a man lies with her sexually, and it is hidden from the eyes of her husband, and she is undetected though she has defiled herself, and there is no witness against her, since she was not taken in the act, 14 and if the spirit of jealousy comes over him and he is jealous of his wife who has defiled herself, or if the spirit of jealousy comes over him and he is jealous of his wife, though she has not defiled herself, 15 then the man shall bring his wife to the priest and bring the offering required of her, a tenth of an ephah of barley flour. He shall pour no oil on it and put no frankincense on it, for it is a grain offering of jealousy, a grain offering of remembrance, bringing iniquity to remembrance.

16 “And the priest shall bring her near and set her before the Lord. 17 And the priest shall take holy water in an earthenware vessel and take some of the dust that is on the floor of the tabernacle and put it into the water. 18 And the priest shall set the woman before the Lord and unbind the hair of the woman's head and place in her hands the grain offering of remembrance, which is the grain offering of jealousy. And in his hand the priest shall have the water of bitterness that brings the curse. 19 Then the priest shall make her take an oath, saying, ‘If no man has lain with you, and if you have not turned aside to uncleanness while you were under your husband's authority, be free from this water of bitterness that brings the curse. 20 But if you have gone astray, though you are under your husband's authority, and if you have defiled yourself, and some man other than your husband has lain with you, 21 then’ (let the priest make the woman take the oath of the curse, and say to the woman) ‘the Lord make you a curse and an oath among your people, when the Lord makes your thigh fall away and your body swell. 22 May this water that brings the curse pass into your bowels and make your womb swell and your thigh fall away.’ And the woman shall say, ‘Amen, Amen.’

23 “Then the priest shall write these curses in a book and wash them off into the water of bitterness. 24 And he shall make the woman drink the water of bitterness that brings the curse, and the water that brings the curse shall enter into her and cause bitter pain. 25 And the priest shall take the grain offering of jealousy out of the woman's hand and shall wave the grain offering before the Lord and bring it to the altar. 26 And the priest shall take a handful of the grain offering, as its memorial portion, and burn it on the altar, and afterward shall make the woman drink the water. 27 And when he has made her drink the water, then, if she has defiled herself and has broken faith with her husband, the water that brings the curse shall enter into her and cause bitter pain, and her womb shall swell, and her thigh shall fall away, and the woman shall become a curse among her people. 28 But if the woman has not defiled herself and is clean, then she shall be free and shall conceive children.
All those words and your interpretation was refuted in my last past. The passage says nothing about a miscarriage. The passage does speak about a barren womb which is not the same thing. Only in the Obamacare Bible will you find miscarriage and that translation is rejected by all scholars. Even the NIV-84 disagrees with the Obamacare Bible (NIV'11). So all you have for a source is a fabricated translation from Obama's people. These socialists are well known for their constant attempts to re-write the Bible. The Obamacare Bible is one of worst translations of the Bible ever done, besides the NRSV and NAB.
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Old July 12th, 2018, 08:19 PM   #177
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Originally Posted by Ploughboy View Post
All those words and your interpretation was refuted in my last past. The passage says nothing about a miscarriage. The passage does speak about a barren womb which is not the same thing. Only in the Obamacare Bible will you find miscarriage and that translation is rejected by all scholars. Even the NIV-84 disagrees with the Obamacare Bible (NIV'11). So all you have for a source is a fabricated translation from Obama's people. These socialists are well known for their constant attempts to re-write the Bible. The Obamacare Bible is one of worst translations of the Bible ever done, besides the NRSV and NAB.

It doesn't matter if the passage says "miscarriage". It's a description of how to force a miscarriage none the less. How obtuse can you be?

Which version of this passage do you prefer, Aramaic, Greek, or Latin?

Also..."The Obamacare Bible". LOL!! I got to hear this one......

Last edited by GluteusMaximus; July 12th, 2018 at 08:22 PM.
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Old July 12th, 2018, 09:48 PM   #178
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Originally Posted by GluteusMaximus View Post
It doesn't matter if the passage says "miscarriage". It's a description of how to force a miscarriage none the less. How obtuse can you be?

Which version of this passage do you prefer, Aramaic, Greek, or Latin?

Also..."The Obamacare Bible". LOL!! I got to hear this one......
The only Bible that says miscarriage is the NIV'11 (the Obamacare Bible). The NIV'11 changed 40% of the NIV'84 which was a better translation. Even the translators of the NIV'11 regret their decision to ideologically translate the Bible to fit modern liberalism. So the Bible will soon go extinct and no one will buy it. People are still discovering the many problems with the NIV'11. So lets one more time run through some well known translations and compare texts.

The focus on this passage is verses 21 & 22. The Obamacare Bible (NIV'11) is the only translation that used miscarriage.

Quote:
21 here the priest is to put the woman under this curse—“may the Lord cause you to become a curse among your people when he makes your womb miscarry and your abdomen swell. 22 May this water that brings a curse enter your body so that your abdomen swells or your womb miscarries.” (Obamacare Bible).
Now lets see what the real NIV says, the NIV'84:

Quote:
"21 here the priest is to put the woman under this curse of the oath--"may the LORD cause your people to curse and denounce you when he causes your thigh to waste away and your abdomen to swell. 22 May the water that brings a curse enter your body so that your abdomen swells and your thigh wastes away."

The 1537 Matthew's Bible,

Quote:
5:21 (and let the preast coniure her wyth the coniuracion of the curse & say vnto her) the Lord make the a curse and a coniuracion amonge thy people: so that the Lord make thy thygh rotte, and thy bely swel
5:22 in this bitter cursing water goo in to the bowels of the, that thy bely swel and thy thygh rotte, and the wyfe shal say Amen Amen.
Numbers 5:21-22 King James Version (KJV)

Quote:
21 Then the priest shall charge the woman with an oath of cursing, and the priest shall say unto the woman, The Lord make thee a curse and an oath among thy people, when the Lord doth make thy thigh to rot, and thy belly to swell;

22 And this water that causeth the curse shall go into thy bowels, to make thy belly to swell, and thy thigh to rot: And the woman shall say, Amen, amen.
Numbers 5:21-22 English Standard Version (ESV)

Quote:
21 then’ (let the priest make the woman take the oath of the curse, and say to the woman) ‘the Lord make you a curse and an oath among your people, when the Lord makes your thigh fall away and your body swell. 22 May this water that brings the curse pass into your bowels and make your womb swell and your thigh fall away.’ And the woman shall say, ‘Amen, Amen.’
Numbers 5:21-22 Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB )

Quote:
21 at this point the priest must make the woman take the oath with the sworn curse, and he is to say to her—‘May the Lord make you into an object of your people’s cursing and swearing when He makes your thigh[a] shrivel and your belly swell.[b] 22 May this water that brings a curse enter your stomach, causing your belly to swell and your thigh to shrivel.’

“And the woman must reply, ‘Amen, Amen.’
Numbers 5:21-22 Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition (DRA)

Quote:
21 These curses shall light upon thee: The Lord make thee a curse, and an example for all among his people: may he make thy thigh to rot, and may thy belly swell and burst asunder.

22 Let the cursed waters enter into thy belly, and may thy womb swell and thy thigh rot. And the woman shall answer, Amen, amen.
Numbers 5:21-22 New King James Version (NKJV)

Quote:
21 then the priest shall put the woman under the oath of the curse, and he shall say to the woman—“the Lord make you a curse and an oath among your people, when the Lord makes your thigh [a]rot and your belly swell; 22 and may this water that causes the curse go into your stomach, and make your belly swell and your thigh rot.”

‘Then the woman shall say, “Amen, so be it.”
Numbers 5:21-22 Modern English Version (MEV)

Quote:
21 then the priest will charge the woman with an oath of cursing, and the priest will say to the woman, “The Lord make you a curse and an oath among your people, when the Lord makes your thigh rot and your belly swell. 22 And this water that causes the curse will go into your bowels, to make your belly swell and your thigh rot.”

And the woman will say, “Amen, amen.”
Numbers 5:21-22 Young's Literal Translation (YLT)

Quote:
21 (then the priest hath caused the woman to swear with an oath of execration, and the priest hath said to the woman) -- Jehovah doth give thee for an execration, and for a curse, in the midst of thy people, in Jehovah's giving thy thigh to fall, and thy belly to swell,

22 and these waters which cause the curse have gone into thy bowels, to cause the belly to swell, and the thigh to fall; and the woman hath said, Amen, Amen.
Numbers 5:21-22 New Living Translation (NLT)

Quote:
21 “At this point the priest must put the woman under oath by saying, ‘May the people know that the Lord’s curse is upon you when he makes you infertile, causing your womb to shrivel and your abdomen to swell. 22 Now may this water that brings the curse enter your body and cause your abdomen to swell and your womb to shrivel.’ And the woman will be required to say, ‘Yes, let it be so.’
Numbers 5:21-22 Revised Standard Version (RSV)

Quote:
21 then’ (let the priest make the woman take the oath of the curse, and say to the woman) ‘the Lord make you an execration and an oath among your people, when the Lord makes your thigh fall away and your body swell; 22 may this water that brings the curse pass into your bowels and make your body swell and your thigh fall away.’ And the woman shall say, ‘Amen, Amen.’
Numbers 5:21-22 New American Standard Bible (NASB )

Quote:
21 (then the priest shall have the woman swear with the oath of the curse, and the priest shall say to the woman), “the Lord make you a curse and an oath among your people by the Lord’s making your thigh [a]waste away and your abdomen swell; 22 and this water that brings a curse shall go into your stomach, and make your abdomen swell and your thigh waste away.” And the woman shall say, “Amen. Amen.”
In context, this deals with a jealous wife which can ruin marriages. There is no hint of pregnancy in his text. The NIV'11 scholars purposely distorted the passage as they did many many other passage. The NIV'11 is sold alongside the Satanic Bible and both under the same publisher. The translation was a perversion by Obama's people who were hell bent on a government takeover with the intentions of forcing communism in America. Had Trump not won the election our nation would already be a communist country. Socialists have a long history of burning books and re-writing history and even the Bible. This NIV'11 (Obamacare Bible) was a sneaky attempt at brainwashing many people into atheism. The flat earth movement uses the NIV'11 as one of their main Bibles which they use to manipulate the minds of children, who they brainwash into socialism and the occult.

At best, the passage reveals a curse of a barren womb. A womb can become sterile and not be pregnant. You will find no credible Christian sources ancient or modern who will defend the false position that the passage is about abortion. Thou shall not murder is the command and abortion is murder.

Democrats today now support abortions on the day of delivery. Who in their right mind will vote for that? That is baby killing. And any mother who kills her own baby on the day of delivery is an evil woman! Most women would rather die to see their baby live. Five thousand years of written history testify to this.
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Old July 13th, 2018, 01:32 AM   #179
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‘Obamacare’ Bible???

You go more and more off the deep end every day. This presumably is a translation that doesn’t conform to your omnipotence on Biblical theology?

I really do think you miss the point:

The world is indeed full of peril, and in it there are many dark places; but still there is much that is fair, and though in all lands love is now mingled with grief, it grows perhaps the greater
LotR FoTR


As you keep being told, your argument is completely flawed. You keep using a text which you claim to be infallible to make your arguments. But as it says in the Good book:

It's a dangerous business, Frodo, going out your door. You step onto the road, and if you don't keep your feet, there's no knowing where you might be swept off to.
LotR FoTR

The trouble is that your argument amounts to you quoting from a book, which you seem to believe it is absolutely true. Yet you cannot prove it objectively. Which means that most people just ignore your argument, because there is nothing to back it up

I warn you, if you bore me, I shall take my revenge
JT to CL

Keep throwing quotes without facts and you make your argument irrelevant. For it says:

The wide world is all about you: you can fence yourselves in, but you cannot forever fence it out
LotR FoTR


However, having said that, when you try to actually argue a position, you are so eye wateringly wrong, then maybe you shouldn’t do that either. Here is a selection of issues you have just made a pronouncement on in this thread.

Muslims are persecuting Jews in Europe
Muslims and Nazis are the same
Muslims had the idea for the Final Solution
Muslims – more than any other group in Europe – drove the Holocaust
That Nazis were and are a Left Wing organization
That Liberals hate Jews
That just because someone disagrees with you that they are a Muslim!

Now how about producing some EVIDENCE - not opinion, not conjecture and please – no more quotes!


And remember:
Never laugh at live dragons
TH
Thanks from GluteusMaximus
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Old July 13th, 2018, 10:10 AM   #180
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Now how about producing some EVIDENCE - not opinion, not conjecture and please – no more quotes!
Quoting is how liberalism is utterly destroyed. That's how you defeat mysticism. You liberals misquote everything. You try and manipulate passages from the Bible, and when you are corrected by greater known facts as quoted, you say "No more quotes!"

The mystics has no concept of truth. The mystic cannot quote from anything relevant because knowledge is the enemy of the mystic.
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